TGirls and the sex industry

[MrF]

One thing that has always surprised me is what a large fraction of TGirls work in the sex industry, or so it seems. I've estimated that between 3 and 14% of those who are of "working age" (18 to 30) work as escorts. I'll provide details of the estimate in a follow-up post -- it's a little boring.

Now I realize that, obviously, by hanging out in a sex-industry message forum I could get a distorted view of the TGirl scene. However, my strong impression that it was a big fraction came from meeting TGirls in various gay bars. I guess I've met about 30 this way over the span of several years and they were *ALL* escorts. The gay men were, I think, mostly not escorts, so then why should all the TGirls be ? (Actually one fed me a line that she was "not a prostitute", but if she was how much $$ would I give her, because she really needed the $$ ! :) )

Not that I judge anyone negatively for this, but since escorting is a socially undesirable job in the USA it's a strange statistic even if it is only 3%, as that is much higher than for GG, and I wonder what it means ?

From the comments I've seen various places, the reasons include:

1. Since guys tend to treat that as hoes anyway, they might as well be one. This sounds like a crazy rationalization, but I've read or heard the comment many times.

2. Can't get a legit job due to discrimination against transgenders, so they need the $$ and escorting pays well.

3. In some cases, they are "freaky" (promiscuous), so may as well get paid while they're at it.

What do you guys think ?

.

[ROC]

NO COMMENT......... NOT GONNA TOUCH THIS QUESTION WITH A TEN FOOT POLE.........LOL :eek:

[MrF]

Below I show how I estimated that between 3 and 14% of TGirls are escorts. (Warning, it's boring !)

The percentages may seem higher for the TGirls in gay bars, but that may be because most TGirls don't go to bars. Instead, they may be "homebodies", and/or they get jobs and are in "boy mode" in public, and are hard to find because they are rare. Perhaps many are in committed monogamous relationships, etc.

The 3 inputs to the estimate are as follows, and I'm not sure how accurate they are: 1) From a casual perusal of eros.com and CL, about 25% of escorts are TGirls. We'll assume that's representative of the escort industry; 2) The fraction of GG (genetic girls) who are escorts is 0.023% according to wikipedia. 3) Again according to wikipedia, the fraction of males who experience gender dysphoria (i.e. are TGirls) is between 1 in 500 and 1 in 2500.

Putting these together and doing the math we get between 2.9 and 14 %.

As an example to show the math: Suppose 1 in 1000 males are TGirls and 1 in 4 escorts are TGirls. Then TGirls are 250 times more likely to become escorts as GG. Multiply 250 by 0.023% to get 5.75%.

[DirtySouth]

One thing that has always surprised me is what a large fraction of TGirls work in the sex industry, or so it seems. I've estimated that between 3 and 14% of those who are of "working age" (18 to 30) work as escorts. I'll provide details of the estimate in a follow-up post -- it's a little boring.

Now I realize that, obviously, by hanging out in a sex-industry message forum I could get a distorted view of the TGirl scene. However, my strong impression that it was a big fraction came from meeting TGirls in various gay bars. I guess I've met about 30 this way over the span of several years and they were *ALL* escorts. The gay men were, I think, mostly not escorts, so then why should all the TGirls be ? (Actually one fed me a line that she was "not a prostitute", but if she was how much $$ would I give her, because she really needed the $$ ! :) )

Not that I judge anyone negatively for this, but since escorting is a socially undesirable job in the USA it's a strange statistic even if it is only 3%, as that is much higher than for GG, and I wonder what it means ?


We are ALL playing with fire here. Most of us have had similar experiences with tgirls so Im sure we will all agree. Since you pose a good question, I feel compelled to give my two cents.

In my personal adventures, even before I joined the sex industry, I had never met a tgirl with a sole 9 to 5. The few girls that I have met with jobs and/or in college always either escorted part time, fraud or had a sugar daddy. I do believe there are plenty of tgirls out there with a job and working hard to fit into society w/o the sex industry. I'm just saying....I never met one.

You could blame the enviornments we meet these girls. Anywhere online and youre almost asking for it. Lets take bars for instance. If I go to meet females in bars, 9.99 times out of 10, she's not an escort. You have your gold diggers...but thats not escorting. It is safe to say, I have never caught my GG girlfriends in the past with an eros ad. You change that scenario to a tgirl and most of the time, you are going to be dealing with an escort. The odds are overwhelming and the fact that we are discussing it YET AGAIN, proves that its not just a few of us that have been through this.



1. Since guys tend to treat that as hoes anyway, they might as well be one. This sounds like a crazy rationalization, but I've read or heard the comment many times.

That is a cop out for personal responsibility on her behalf.


2. Can't get a legit job due to discrimination against transgenders, so they need the $$ and escorting pays well.

This is true for the non-passable ones or maybe beginners. How do you explain a extremely passable, sexy girl who has her name/sex changed still not wanting to work? A lot of girls begin life like that but they CHOOSE to keep it up. Society does not.


3. In some cases, they are "freaky" (promiscuous), so may as well get paid while they're at it.

Yet another excuse.

I can relate to you guys because I used to date tgirls before I started to work with them. Working with them, I have met some really nice girls who just dont have much guidance to get them out of that vicious cycle. Some girls do, and the choose to continue their way of life. For that, we cannot condemn them for what they want out of life and how they choose to get it. The beauty about it is, you do not have to accept it in your life. You have a choice too. Once you realize that, the issue over whether they escort or not is really trivial.

[Ms Remy M]

Arrghh ok I typed a long post and was logged out when I tried to submit it so this will be much shorter.

Before I started working in this Industry, I knew quite a few tgirls that worked regular jobs, before I ever actually met an escorting tgirl. Maybe it was the crowd I was hanging around though.

I feel discrimination is an excuse for them not to get a job. I would wager that they never even tried and just assumed that they will be discriminated against. I've seen tgirls that aren't even close to passable still holding down a job. Granted they worked in Telemarketing and didn't have to deal with customers face-to-face.

I find stats and numbers to be suspect from Wiki. I think there are probably more females escorting than there are tgirls escorting in a ratio basis. I noticed that you didn't include numbers for females that escort vs that don't. I think that whole formula is bogus.

[bxboy1984]

interesting topic. definitly fire though :P

I think reason #1 is the discrimination, but day by day that shrinking. Soon it wont be an excuse regardless of the stage of transition.
the "if he wants a quickie, hes gotta pay" is a new revolution. Alot of girls regardless of race AND sometimes even job are putting it into practice. Can't blame em sometimes because for every girl who escorts p/t or f/t, theres at least 5 guys who just want to get they dicks wet. Any guy who has ts friends will here some of the damndest stories, DAILY!!!!

[GroobySteven]

3-14%

Your way way off.

Over 50% for sure.

[MrF]

I find stats and numbers to be suspect from Wiki. I think there are probably more females escorting than there are tgirls escorting in a ratio basis. I noticed that you didn't include numbers for females that escort vs that don't. I think that whole formula is bogus.

The formula is just standard probability arithmetic, but I agree the inputs from wiki are suspect. I'd put more weight on my own observations and those of members. Sorry I didn't have the motivation/time to look up more credible sources.

The numbers for females (GG) escorting was given (0.023%), which implies that 99.977 % do not escort, so that answers the "I noticed ..." sentence, albeit using wiki numbers. But the tiny percentage for GG is plausible based on my experience.

.

[DirtySouth]

I find stats and numbers to be suspect from Wiki. I think there are probably more females escorting than there are tgirls escorting in a ratio basis. I noticed that you didn't include numbers for females that escort vs that don't. I think that whole formula is bogus.

Come on partna! We dont need to break out wiki. This is common sense. Lets take a city, Atlanta, for example. Lets say that there are 1.5 million females in the city and 500 tgirls. There may be more female escorts than tgirls in sheer numbers because the female population is bigger, but ratio? No sir! Were talking 1:1000 female escort ratio compared to 1:2 tgirl escort (estimate). I think its a 50/50 split down the line or even more. My gut feeling tells me 80% escort in most major cities.

[MrF]

That's right, Dirty South, and the spirit of my post is that the TG percentage is a lot higher than the GG percentage -- the exact numbers aren't too important. So whether it's 50% or my very-rough 3-14%, it's still far higher. And I also agree with you not to judge anyone for that. (I'd have to judge myself first !) It just highlights an unusual aspect of the scene.

[ty-clone]

We are ALL playing with fire This is true for the non-passable ones or maybe beginners. How do you explain a extremely passable, sexy girl who has her name/sex changed still not wanting to work? A lot of girls begin life like that but they CHOOSE to keep it up. Society does not.

thats what im saying, nowadays most tgirls are very passable, you really cant tell the difference. its the same with real girls that are pretty and have banging bodies. you can go to any major city looking for hookers and see a homey regular girl and say well its understandable why she out here then see a girl thats a 8,9, or 10 ans say damn WTF is she doing out here, she can be a model or video shortie. its no telling why girls or tgirls escort. i say its because of the fast money with less hours, i heard a girl say why should i work a reg 9-5 and come home with 50-60 dollars after taxes a day for 8 hours of hard labor, when i can suck 2 dicks in less then 2hours and make twice that

[DirtySouth]

i heard a girl say why should i work a reg 9-5 and come home with 50-60 dollars after taxes a day for 8 hours of hard labor, when i can suck 2 dicks in less then 2hours and make twice that

And end up dead in less than 5 years? Or washed up in 10?

Their is always a price for fast money.

[aaronk]

yea you right on there dirty south...many,almost all are kinda washed up by 30.....them yrs on the streets and the DRUGS...weed too(sorry fellas)....it really adds up...think of how many tgirls,especially btg's who are in their 40's...think bout it...

[Tony Vee]

I think the percentage of passable tgirls who are escorts either part or full time or have at least dabbled in it is way over 50%...maybe even 90%

[bxboy1984]

I think the percentage of passable tgirls who are escorts either part or full time or have at least dabbled in it is way over 50%...maybe even 90%

lol if you include p/timers yeah.

very few stay virtuous.

[methodman]

ahhh.... i don't want to go on and on but everything you theorize is just that.
your statistics are far from being scientific.
its just all stereotyping.

peace

[DirtySouth]

.........and thats why youre a 'newbie' ;-)

[GroobySteven]

ahhh.... i don't want to go on and on but everything you theorize is just that.
your statistics are far from being scientific.
its just all stereotyping.

peace

There is no possible way you could ever do anything scientific where tgirls are involved ... the mind just boggles.
My "theory" comes from a lot of experience with transgenders and not just in the sex industry, I've interviewed 100's (actually probably over 1000) tgirls of all types about experiences. It's not stereotyping, it's based in fact.

[MrF]

There is no possible way you could ever do anything scientific where tgirls are involved ... the mind just boggles.
My "theory" comes from a lot of experience with transgenders and not just in the sex industry, I've interviewed 100's (actually probably over 1000) tgirls of all types about experiences. It's not stereotyping, it's based in fact.

Do you think it's possible that your sampling could have biased your conclusion ? That's what I worried about and it's why I made my silly estimate to try to corroborate my observations. In your case, most of the TGirls you interview presumably know in advance that you are associated with the sex industry, and the TGirls who want nothing to do with that would not grant you an interview. TGirls who work in the sex industry tend to know others who work similarly, etc.

Well, I guess I should quit letting my mind be boggled and just enjoy the lovely pics ... :)

.

[Ms Remy M]

In your case, most of the TGirls you interview presumably know in advance that you are associated with the sex industry, and the TGirls who want nothing to do with that would not grant you an interview. TGirls who work in the sex industry tend to know others who work similarly, etc.

I kind of see what you are saying, as I recently approached a t-girl who we have spoken of in another thread and is extremely passable about posing for a Regional Magazine and even mentioned that her gender wouldn't be an issue or mentioned and that it was not a nude shoot. She still turned me down out right assuming that I was trying to get her to show up for a shoot for BTG. That really rubbed me the wrong way, cause I see the potential and wanted to give her the chance at mainstream modeling as I personally know the guy who runs the publishing company for the magazine. I honestly had no intentions of trying to get her to shoot for BTG as she turned me down on multiple occasions, and I don't want to burn any bridges by pressing the issue. Oh well...

[TVSURFER]

I thought long and hard about weighing in on this topic, because it has been discussed before and this post is counterproduct of what this site is trying to achieve!
Are we going to start calling these models 'hoes' and question their trade and libido? Then ask yourself this question: Why are you here? Why are you on this site lusting after these promiscuous "hoes"? This shows how asinine this whole post is!
I've been censored for my insensetivity toward models and et. al, and this is over the top! Personally, it doesn't make sense to discuss it. It's hypocritical to discuss it!
Calling these models hoes and even implying about their sex drives, sighting data and stats, is ass backwards and still oogling the very objects you are talking about formally.
I don't think this site is all about such trivial stuff! It is boring!!!

[DirtySouth]

I thought long and hard about weighing in on this topic, because it has been discussed before and this post is counterproduct of what this site is trying to achieve!
Are we going to start calling these models 'hoes' and question their trade and libido? Then ask yourself this question: Why are you here? Why are you on this site lusting after these promiscuous "hoes"? This shows how asinine this whole post is!
I've been censored for my insensetivity toward models and et. al, and this is over the top! Personally, it doesn't make sense to discuss it. It's hypocritical to discuss it!
Calling these models hoes and even implying about their sex drives, sighting data and stats, is ass backwards and still oogling the very objects you are talking about formally.
I don't think this site is all about such trivial stuff! It is boring!!!

I see your point. It makes sense if you look at it from your perspective. I think what the discussion is really about is the huge difference in ratio to females who do or do not escort versus the ratio of t-girls. With women, we have our porn stars and escorts but there is a huge majority whom are not in that industry so if you want to settle down with a nice girl, your odds are higher. If you happen to like t-girls in a romantic situation, then odds are you're dealing with an escort every time because thats what the majority of them seem to do. Thats what I gather the discussion is about. Not complaining about our models and fantasies, but more so of discussing a valid issue when you step out of the realm of your fantasy and try to date t-girls seriously.

[MrF]

I thought long and hard about weighing in on this topic, because it has been discussed before and this post is counterproduct of what this site is trying to achieve!
Are we going to start calling these models 'hoes' and question their trade and libido? Then ask yourself this question: Why are you here? Why are you on this site lusting after these promiscuous "hoes"? This shows how asinine this whole post is!
I've been censored for my insensetivity toward models and et. al, and this is over the top! Personally, it doesn't make sense to discuss it. It's hypocritical to discuss it!
Calling these models hoes and even implying about their sex drives, sighting data and stats, is ass backwards and still oogling the very objects you are talking about formally.
I don't think this site is all about such trivial stuff! It is boring!!!

Well, since I started this "asinine", "hypocritical", "boring", and "trivial" topic ... (how was I hypocritical ? I don't claim to be better than others).

I'm here to admire the TGirls, like everyone else. And I'm interested in understanding what makes them tick. If more than 3% are involved in escorting, that's interesting (to me) and different from GG. Like I said in my posts, I don't judge anyone for that.

Since I'm anonymous and have no honor at stake, I have no problems with people criticizing my posts. Go for it. Make my day. Anyway, I'm mostly on this forum to discuss ideas and exchange info, and will always avoid personal conflicts. Peace out. :)

[peggygee]

Pardon my necro-posting.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/necromancy_4x4.jpg

But as a woman I just had to weigh in.

In terms of the percentage of transwomen that the average "admirer"
encounters, I'm going to have to say the statistics are skewed.

To illustrate, let me tell you a quick story:

Back in the day, my Brother asked my Mother and I why he couldn't meet
any women that he could "wife up." We asked him where did he tend to meet
the average woman that he was interested in dating, his response was in
bars.

If you go to a casino you will find gamblers, if you go to a school you will find
students, if you go to a gay or tranny club invariably you will find women on
the game, the same could be said of trans-related sites that are porn
oriented.

In looking for a mate, I would not be seeking one in a gay or tranny bar, pre
or post op, those would not be venues that I would frequent.

As to the other issues touched upon in the thread as to why transwomen
escort, that's a seperate topic, but as to the percentages that are being
encountered I don't feel that they are entirely accurate.

[MrF]

Oh no, this thread again ? I was hoping it was buried -- I managed to piss off so many and bored the rest.

But it is good to have the perspective of a transwoman who presumably knows the TG life far better than most of us "admirers".

I think I already stated in the thread that our "gut feeling estimates" for the percentages could be skewed because of where we're looking. (Then again I was also trying for a "scientific estimate" as well, but may have failed.)

For example, you might think one of the guys here who has met dozens (or hundreds) of TG might know about the scene. But do they really ? Certain TG will gravitate towards them, while others will steer clear, which distorts their perspectives. I'm not saying it's bad. Just saying it happens that way.

.

[peggygee]

Oh no, this thread again ? I was hoping it was buried -- I managed to piss off so many and bored the rest.

But it is good to have the perspective of a transwoman who presumably knows the TG life far better than most of us "admirers".

I think I already stated in the thread that our "gut feeling estimates" for the percentages could be skewed because of where we're looking. (Then again I was also trying for a "scientific estimate" as well, but may have failed.)

For example, you might think one of the guys here who has met dozens (or hundreds) of TG might know about the scene. But do they really ? Certain TG will gravitate towards them, while others will steer clear, which distorts their perspectives. I'm not saying it's bad. Just saying it happens that way.

.


Yup, almost 40 years on the job, full time.

And there are a hellva lot of women not in the scene, it truly depends
on where you look.

Admirers may think that they have the 411 on transwomen, and some do
more than others, but unless they've walked in our Payless or Ferragamo
shoes they might not have the full picture.

[thookie]

Yup, almost 40 years on the job, full time.

And there are a hellva lot of women not in the scene, it truly depends
on where you look.

Admirers may think that they have the 411 on transwomen, and some do
more than others, but unless they've walked in our Payless or Ferragamo
shoes they might not have the full picture.

So where would you suggest to look for a transwoman?

[peggygee]

So where would you suggest to look for a transwoman?

I do realize that it's kind of difficult to meet transwomen who are on the
low, who are blending, who don't really advertise their existence, basically
have assimilated into the mainstream.

But I don't think that I'm an anomaly as there are other women who feel that
since they're not gay, they wouldn't go to a gay bar, as it's mostly men
looking for other men. And though I'm mildly bi, and could be in relationship
with the right woman, I still don't see myself going to one.

Rather, I'd be in the usual places where you would meet any other chick,
work, school, church, bookstore, etc.

When I do have a dating ad it's on mainstream sites like Match, True, etc.

Though I have met people from the sites such as tsmatch, transgenderdate,
some of the nings, and a while back some of the Myspace sites.

But mostly I just meet men in the real world, and we take it from there. http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/shrug.gif

[sweet&seductive]

i am a working ts and im very passable! i have my cna license and my phlebotomy license . i dnt escort! never had! it took the longest fo me to decide to post nude and do a photo shoot on black tgirl! but i used a allias name due to i dont need it biting me n the ass like it do on life time movies! but the ts that do escort make it hard for ts like me that aint n a relationship for the money or fuckin fo money to find a good man becus most man assume we r all the same! it might be a few that are doin wat the have to to make it n the world a remain on point and disease free! not sayin those that escort aint on point but they livin dangerously and to open and out there fo me! but i dnt knock they hustle! every1 gota eat! i just choose a different way to get fed and thats work! a job not a dick

[bigruss]

you guys have it all wrong, it is not the girls, its the guys. It is simple supply and demand. The reason there are so tgirl that escort is because there is a demand for it. if the guys had the nerve to open and honest about there attraction to tgirls, than there would be no need for escorts, but most men do not want there fetish known to the public and will pay for the secrecy. i have told my girlfriend, best friend, and my parents about my fetish. i even dated a tgirl publicly. most of the guys on the site would not dare do that, most guys on this site proclaim themselves as tops only to separate themselves, my guess is because they think its gay to be topped. but i have come to grips with myself a long time ago that i like women and MEN who look like women. i don't care if that makes me gay or straight or whatever. if the guys would just be true to themselves and the rest of the world than maybe this little fetish of ours would come out of the closet. oh and in nature to be inter sexed is normal. only humans operate on healthy babies sex organs to make them "normal". transgendered people have been around for hundreds of years, Indians have terms for being transgendered and are acknowledged but not accepted.

[4mystuffin]

Its not the worlds oldest profession for no reason. Its our society that deems it wrong, many places dont have the same view, its all in the eye of the beholder. I dont see a problem with it, and in the past (havent chased in a while) when I met T-Girls it was for sex be it for money or not. The Tgirls I met that werent coming to me as an working girl did end up being that. At the same time I come from an unfair side I would be looking for the sex, and even when it did have a possiblity to go farther I was young and nervous, and wasnt ready to take it there.

The bad part is what many GG or Tgirl end up doing with the money they earn.

[BlkMuscleTop]

As someone who is into history and cultures and enjoy the subject matter so much that I majored in it in college, I have learned that to each their own indeed.

I'm not one to knock or question anyone's hustle as long as it is two adults and is of a consenting nature. Live and let live is indeed my motto.

It is society and the human disposition that makes things more than it should be, but then we wouldn't be humans would we.

Transsexualism exists in varied places such as in Thailand, Japan, Brazil, The Philippines, India, Turkey, Pakistan, Mexico, Indonesia, Iran and the list goes on and on and on. Is this coincidental. :)

In other words they exist in every darn place that humans inhabit and in every culture and as I see it I'm attracted to them and It is just something that I personally find appealing in the attitude, demeanor and makeup of them that is attractive to me.

I just know what I like and go for it. Life is way too short for me to over analyze it.

As for the escort bit, as has been suggested here the reasons can be varied for each girl. In the end though it comes down to the almighty dollar and it is indeed an access to fast money and they tend to like men. Many girls tend to roam in the same setting and so if one is making lots of money the rest will see that and figure why not.

In my book its all good, they do what they do, the dudes that get involved with that know it and if both are cool with it, that is on them. I got no time to worry about them. :)

[peggygee]

and MEN who look like women

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/icon_rolleyes.gif

[bigruss]

i am SORRY if i offended anyone by my men who look like women statement, i was just breaking it down to the simplest form to make a point. but that is how a large part of society feels. i do see you ladies as women, once again i am sorry.

[DYNACORD]

I see this is a rather old thread, but still interesting.
I've spoken to a few of the girls I know and have dated,about this subject. We all agree that the ratio of TS Girls who escort to the number who don't is very high. I agree with the number of 80% or higher. Anyone who thinks it's lower is fooling themselves or is only around a few girls who may not. I also believe the number of TS girls who have high level jobs is very low. Only because the number of girls who have any type of mainstream job is low, so why would there be a large number of TS ladies in high paying jobs. I don't have any written data, and I doubt that any exists. Why would these upward mobil ladies participate in such a study. It would only bring their business to the front line.
We all know more than 1 girl who escorts. We have also heard the same reasons. The real 2 reasons for most of them is A) They have no skill or interest. but they won't admit to that. B) Like others have said::They did it and saw the somewhat easy money. But, that big money isn't there these days. There isn't a single girl here in Detroit that makes big money. And I'm betting there isn't any girl anywhere from hearing stories from other girls. At least not from escorting. You can make more money if you are web caming and have a website. That all adds up. Wish them all the world!

[DYNACORD]

AS far as meeting a TS girl at work, in church, at the store:::forget that, it's not ging to happen. You may have a better chance of winning the lottery. There just isn't enough girls to run in to them like that. It would be nice if you could. Of course having 2 dicks would be nice too.
Like it's been said, you really have to go to the bars or pagents, places where they go. Not all do, but then again you probably won't be running into them ether.
Note: Most of the girls don't have their escort hats on when you just start a normal conversation in any setting. Had to throw that in for their benefit.

[anonymoussonny]

Same Subject, Different Day...