Morehouse College cracks down on cross-dressing [Archive]

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peggygee

10-20-2009, 04:42 PM

By Lateef Mungin
CNN
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ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- An all-male college in Atlanta, Georgia, has banned the wearing of women's clothes, makeup, high heels and purses as part of a new crackdown on what the institution calls inappropriate attire.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/US/10/17/college.dress.code/art.bynum.cnn.jpg William Bynum says he discussed the new dress-wearing ban policy with Morehouse's campus gay organization.

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No dress-wearing is part of a larger dress code launched this week that Morehouse College is calling its "Appropriate Attire Policy."

The policy also bans wearing hats in buildings, pajamas in public, do-rags, sagging pants, sunglasses in class and walking barefoot on campus.
However, it is the ban on cross-dressing that has brought national attention to the small historically African-American college. http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gifWatch students react to the new dress code » (http://www.black-tgirls.com/forum/#cnnSTCVideo)

The dress-wearing ban is aimed at a small part of the private college's 2,700-member student body, said Dr. William Bynum, vice president for Student Services.

"We are talking about five students who are living a gay lifestyle that is leading them to dress a way we do not expect in Morehouse men," he said.

Before the school released the policy, Bynum said, he met with Morehouse (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/morehouse_college) Safe Space, the campus' gay organization.

"We talked about it and then they took a vote," he said. "Of the 27 people in the room, only three were against it."

There has been a positive response along with some criticism throughout the campus, he said.

Senior Devon Watson said he disagrees with parts of the new policy, especially those that tell students what they should wear in free time outside of the classroom.

"I feel that there will be a lot of resentment and backlash," Watson said. "It infringes on the student's freedom of expression. I matriculated successfully for three-and-half years dressing so how is this a problem?"

Senior Tyrone McGowan said he has mixed feelings about parts of the policy.

"But I have been inspired by the conversation it has created," he said. "We have to find a way to create diverse leaders from this college. I don't want this to place all of us in one box."

Those breaking the policy will not be allowed to go to class unless they change. Chronic dress-code offenders could be suspended from the college.

Bynum said the policy comes from the vision of the college's president, who wants the institution to create leaders like notable graduates Martin Luther King Jr., actor Samuel Jackson and film director Spike Lee.

Senior Cameron Titus applauds the change.
"The policy is just saying that you have to show more respect in how you dress and there are things that are just not acceptable at Morehouse," Titus said. "We have a legacy that we are trying to uphold."

peggygee

10-20-2009, 04:45 PM

Dr. William Bynum, vice president for Student Services, met wth Morehouse Safe Space, the campus' gay organization, before the school released the policy.

"We talked about it and then they took a vote," he said. "Of the 27 people in the room, only three were against it."

Proving yet again that sexual orientation, and gender identity are two very different things, and that the GLB does not have the best interests of the transcommunity at heart.

BiggestE22

10-20-2009, 05:13 PM

Interestin because I have a (gg) gf that watches real Housewives of Atlanta and the gay guys on there all seem to wear high heels out so i imagine thats some of the things the guys are doing there. Not a big deal but I imagine they are a conservative black school that wants to stop some of that stuff. its a private school so I see no problem with it although in a perfect world people would be able to express themselves any way they want...

peggygee

10-20-2009, 05:47 PM

Not a big deal but I imagine they are a conservative black school that wants to stop some of that stuff. its a private school so I see no problem with it although in a perfect world people would be able to express themselves any way they want...

A private school, but one that receives state and Federal funds in the form of loans
and grants for it's students, as well as tax breaks for being a educational entity.

peggygee

10-20-2009, 06:36 PM

While there is no statewide laws laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of gender identity or expression in Georgia, Atlanta did institue one in 2000.

http://www.transgenderlaw.org/ndlaws/index.htm

Georgia Non-Discrimination Law

Gender identity protected? No
No statewide law explicitly addresses discrimination based on gender identity.

Sexual orientation protected? No
No statewide law explicitly addresses sexual orientation discrimination.

http://www.hrc.org/issues/workplace/883.htm

State
As of April 2008, twenty states and the District of Columbia have outlawed employment discrimination based on sexual orientation, and 12 states and the District of Columbia ban it based on gender identity.

http://www.hrc.org/issues/workplace/workplace_laws.asp

Tony Vee

10-20-2009, 07:17 PM

Unless the school goes coed I don't see any way around it.

vidman

10-20-2009, 07:41 PM

What's being forced to happen is that if men claim to be really transgendered, they will have to go through the courts to have the name and gender switched on official records. Otherwise, sexual expression will be no excuse for men wearing female clothes, etc. Wow, it's funny how society wants the "down-low" mentality eliminated, but schools like Morehouse are promoting it by telling guys that they have to suppress who they truely are. Isn't that being down-low? Hypocrisy at it's finest.

SEXYTSJESSDOTCOM

10-20-2009, 07:47 PM

I went to all 4 years in high school as a tranny... i can see where this can be highly depressing for someone that was transitioning to become a tranny buttttt at the same time.. it may be the best interest to relocate. This is crazy.

"We are talking about five students who are living a gay lifestyle that is leading them to dress a way we do not expect in Morehouse men," he said.

I would have Shyt BRICKS if i heard that come out his mouth. Come on... WE all know MOST KAPPA's are Down Low..lol So Is he saying be gay, just be Down low gay? and Blend into society? Come one now

MrKnockOut

10-20-2009, 07:57 PM

vidman

10-20-2009, 08:00 PM

Well equally opposite concepts can not prevail simultaneously. Either sexual expression and the freedoms associated with it is accepted or it's not. Seems to me, that it's not being accepted on the campus of Morehouse. I think the officials of Morehouse are just fine with "down-low" guys. As you said, Jess. The Kappas have been known for that type of behavior for years. But we must remember that the theory of the Frat is one of MASCULINE MEN!! So, it wouldn't be okay for any man in a greek fraternity to be openly gay or transgendered. On the other hand, those guys who feel the need to express themselves by wearing women's clothes probably have no association to any Greek Frat on that campus. Therefore, those guys wearing the dresses could care less about what others think because they are comfortable with themselves. Again, two equally opposite concepts can not prevail, simultaneously.

SEXYTSJESSDOTCOM

10-20-2009, 08:10 PM

sounds like some student/s is going to do a VA Tech.. lol Just kidding.. Just a joke..

vidman

10-20-2009, 08:17 PM

sounds like some student/s is going to do a VA Tech.. lol Just kidding.. Just a joke..

That's messed up Jess!!! lol. funny, but messed up, nonetheless.

SEXYTSJESSDOTCOM

10-20-2009, 08:30 PM

Im Serious.... Dnt Mess With A Gay Man And There Pocket Books Hunny... In Wendy Williams Voice... How U Doin

BlkMuscleTop

10-20-2009, 09:02 PM

"We are talking about five students who are living a gay lifestyle that is leading them to dress a way we do not expect in Morehouse men," he said.

I would have Shyt BRICKS if i heard that come out his mouth. Come on... WE all know MOST KAPPA's are Down Low..lol So Is he saying be gay, just be Down low gay? and Blend into society? Come one now

LMAO, sounds like some homo thugs got the run of the institution, if you straight acting its cool dick each other down. Just don't want shit being too obvious. :)

Then people wonder why black dudes would be on the DL, here is a historically black institution of higher learning essentially pushing that agenda.

They know damn well what's up at Morehouse, otherwise they would pay that issue no mind.

peggygee

10-20-2009, 09:12 PM

I don't agree with it but this is a private institution for men. Morehouse, albeit a very very good school that produces really bright young men (of all races), has been known to have a high number of homosexuals and it has been the stigma the school has been trying to shed for years.
If the individuals self identify themselves as anything other than men, they would not be allowed to attend an all male private institution. I would not be surprised if some of the more well known atlanta transsexuals attended Morehouse at one point or another. In fact, I am quite sure there is one imparticular that went there when she was a he that might have some insight into the culture and climate of this campus.

On another forum where this was being discussed, the counter-argument was
that if a transwoman truly identified as female, that she wouldn't attend an
all male school, and that basically she knew what she was getting into. A
point which I can concede to a certain extent.

My chief gripe is that they allow a Gay association, which of course doesn't
care at all about the well-being of the transwomen on the campus, much
like the LGB movement isn't concerned about transpeople in society at large.

Oh well, glad I'm a Spelman girl.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/spelmangirlx.jpg :D

peggygee

10-20-2009, 09:20 PM

They know damn well what's up at Morehouse, otherwise they would pay that issue no mind.

Yup, any time you put virile males just out of
puberty in an all male environment, it's on.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3vZrwf2OLEI/ST75nO3tRNI/AAAAAAAAAKw/injbdpSWv8M/s320/ecl-noahs.jpg

:rolleyes:

Ms Remy M

10-21-2009, 03:32 PM

*sigh* sad news for those tg's, but it really shouldn't have been a surprise with it being a private all male school.

Federally funded discrimination, what a shame.

peggygee

10-21-2009, 05:30 PM

*sigh* sad news for those tg's, but it really shouldn't have been a surprise with it being a private all male school.

Federally funded discrimination, what a shame.

True dat, but look it like this: What if the woman goes on to fully transition,
GRS and all, wants to go deep stealth, she's degreed - Dr. Barbara Johnson,
with a degree from Morehouse. Instant clock. :(

I wonder if the "Morehouse 5" are truly transgendered, as I would never have
gone to an all-male school by choice. Perhaps they got scholarships, or their
parents compelled them to go there, but other than that it must be rough at
all male institution.

anonymoussonny

10-25-2009, 03:56 AM

SEXYTSJESSDOTCOM

10-25-2009, 02:49 PM

The 'Kappa' thing is a poor ass generalization.

Its similar to saying all men with big feet have big penises...
or
All men who like TG's are gay... smile

MOST men who like men ... or penis + penis = ...... EXACTLY MY POINT!!! You got that?

TVSURFER

10-25-2009, 05:21 PM

*sigh* sad news for those tg's, but it really shouldn't have been a surprise with it being a private all male school.

Federally funded discrimination, what a shame.
Sad news for the tg's? The institution was right to impose a stricter dress code! Fuck it's Morehouse, not Chittlin' Switch College! It's Morehouse; a historical Black College! I take pride in that, even if you have no connection!
I don't think I've ever heard of the boi's doing that at Harvard, Yale or Princeton! Is gayness flaunted at Notre Dame? Couldn't try this shit at the military academies! Nobody is against their gayness or their right to be gay, but not like this! All they are doing is shining an unnecessary spotlight on a Black institution when there isn't a need.
And, if the government wanted to take the funding from the school, I think Morehouse has a hell of a defense!
It's a shame anyone would suggest the fault lies with the college. There is nothing wrong with decorum and/or protocol which, these little boys seem to lack the knowledge! This site ask for as much in respect!
:cool:

peggygee

10-25-2009, 06:28 PM

Sad news for the tg's? The institution was right to impose a stricter dress code! Fuck it's Morehouse, not Chittlin' Switch College! It's Morehouse; a historical Black College! I take pride in that, even if you have no connection!
I don't think I've ever heard of the boi's doing that at Harvard, Yale or Princeton! Is gayness flaunted at Notre Dame? Couldn't try this shit at the military academies! Nobody is against their gayness or their right to be gay, but not like this! All they are doing is shining an unnecessary spotlight on a Black institution when there isn't a need.
And, if the government wanted to take the funding from the school, I think Morehouse has a hell of a defense!
It's a shame anyone would suggest the fault lies with the college. There is nothing wrong with decorum and/or protocol which, these little boys seem to lack the knowledge! This site ask for as much in respect!
:cool:

A few points that I would like to make in response to your post:

1. Gender identity, and sexual orientation are very, very different.

Transgenderism and being gay are very different entities.

2. The fact that Morehouse is an HBCU is a moot point. They are domiciled
in Atlanta which instituted legislation prohibiting discrimination on the basis
of gender identity in 2000, (http://www.transgenderlaw.org/ndlaws/index.htm) and which is in receipt of state and Federal funds in
the form of loans and grants for it's students, as well as tax breaks, as I
mentioned upthread.

3. Not sure which colleges you have gone to, but all of my post secondary
matriculation, undergrad and graduate has been as the female I am, though
admittedly I did so in stealth, however there were many gender variant
people in attendance.

And nope I didn't attend "Chittlin' Switch College", but rather Ivy league
institutions that are world renowned, including course-work at Harvard.

By the by, the College of William and Mary the second oldest college in the
US, founded in 1693, just elected a transgender homecoming queen.

http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-wmhomecomingoct25,0,4223064.story

TVSURFER

10-26-2009, 01:26 AM

A few points that I would like to make in response to your post:

1. Gender identity, and sexual orientation are very, very different.

Transgenderism and being gay are very different entities.

2. The fact that Morehouse is an HBCU is a moot point. They are domiciled
in Atlanta which instituted legislation prohibiting discrimination on the basis
of gender identity in 2000, (http://www.transgenderlaw.org/ndlaws/index.htm) and which is in receipt of state and Federal funds in
the form of loans and grants for it's students, as well as tax breaks, as I
mentioned upthread.

3. Not sure which colleges you have gone to, but all of my post secondary
matriculation, undergrad and graduate has been as the female I am, though
admittedly I did so in stealth, however there were many gender variant
people in attendance.

And nope I didn't attend "Chittlin' Switch College", but rather Ivy league
institutions that are world renowned, including course-work at Harvard.

By the by, the College of William and Mary the second oldest college in the
US, founded in 1693, just elected a transgender homecoming queen.

http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-wmhomecomingoct25,0,4223064.story
First of all, I never said you went to Chittlin’ Switch College and why are you personalizing this? I wasn’t replying to you, anyway! I don’t care where you "matriculated", I’m glad you went somewhere and finished (you did finish, right?)!
As for what is gay and being transgender, well you’re late on that one; we’ve kicked that around more than a few times on this board. I don’t need to be reeducated, educated.
Any academic institution has a right to implement a dress code, purposely, private ones. Most parents examine those sorts of things when they visit such schools, obvious these five young men’s parents didn’t or didn’t care. They really shouldn’t have gone there.
Morehouse has a right to impose a dress code, based on its tradition and legacy; just like the Ivy leagues and military academes. The parochial schools throughout the nation have dress codes which entails; no hats, sagging pants and do-tags. Morehouse is a private school for men; all men inclusive. The school has constructed rules for those men who attend their school, to abide by those rules; its also obvious Morehouse’s gay population hasn’t a problem with the new dress code. I can assume they didn’t want to challenge this dictum because of the negative notoriety would have on the school. After all, there is life after college.
Nonetheless, based on its tradition of upholding all local laws and federal statutes, why Morehouse would allow itself to be placed in an untenable position with the City of Atlanta or the US government by five little boys, who are glad they can stay up past eleven? I don’t think they’ll lose any funding or tax breaks because of this.
As far as your homecoming queen, the person was shocked as anyone when he was elected to the position. The school didn’t do anything about it, I would assume, because of their rules and/or tradition and legacy or, So What? It’s not evidence or relevant to this issue: He "didn’t know" he was crowned homecoming queen at one of the nation’s oldest colleges! :rolleyes:
:cool:

peggygee

10-26-2009, 02:33 AM

First of all, I never said you went to Chittlin’ Switch College and why are you personalizing this? I wasn’t replying to you, anyway! I don’t care where you "matriculated", I’m glad you went somewhere and finished (you did finish, right?)!
As for what is gay and being transgender, well you’re late on that one; we’ve kicked that around more than a few times on this board. I don’t need to be reeducated, educated.
Any academic institution has a right to implement a dress code, purposely, private ones. Most parents examine those sorts of things when they visit such schools, obvious these five young men’s parents didn’t or didn’t care. They really shouldn’t have gone there.
Morehouse has a right to impose a dress code, based on its tradition and legacy; just like the Ivy leagues and military academes. The parochial schools throughout the nation have dress codes which entails; no hats, sagging pants and do-tags. Morehouse is a private school for men; all men inclusive. The school has constructed rules for those men who attend their school, to abide by those rules; its also obvious Morehouse’s gay population hasn’t a problem with the new dress code. I can assume they didn’t want to challenge this dictum because of the negative notoriety would have on the school. After all, there is life after college.
Nonetheless, based on its tradition of upholding all local laws and federal statutes, why Morehouse would allow itself to be placed in an untenable position with the City of Atlanta or the US government by five little boys, who are glad they can stay up past eleven? I don’t think they’ll lose any funding or tax breaks because of this.
As far as your homecoming queen, the person was shocked as anyone when he was elected to the position. The school didn’t do anything about it, I would assume, because of their rules and/or tradition and legacy or, So What? It’s not evidence or relevant to this issue: He "didn’t know" he was crowned homecoming queen at one of the nation’s oldest colleges! :rolleyes:
:cool:

Nope, didn't take it personal, rarely does anything stated on the Net get my
panties in a bunch, just a little healthy debate.

Dress codes are one thing, and I think in many instances they are a good
thing. Indeed the proposed dress codes at Morehouse call for no baggy
pants, do rags, sun glasses in class, flip flops, pajamas, etc.

To re-iterate, my concern is for the the five allegedly transgendered
students, who may be being stifled in their gender identity expression, while
the gays are allowed free rein to have gay alliances and student groups.

Creating a hostile learning environment puts up yet another barrier for trans
women who would like to pursue higher education, and to become degreed as
I did and to garner marketable skills.

peggygee

10-26-2009, 02:52 AM

First of all, I never said you went to Chittlin’ Switch College and why are you personalizing this? I wasn’t replying to you, anyway! I don’t care where you "matriculated", I’m glad you went somewhere and finished (you did finish, right?)!

As far as your homecoming queen, the person was shocked as anyone when he was elected to the position. The school didn’t do anything about it, I would assume, because of their rules and/or tradition and legacy or, So What? It’s not evidence or relevant to this issue: He "didn’t know" he was crowned homecoming queen at one of the nation’s oldest colleges! :rolleyes:
:cool:

Additionally, my rationale for alluding to my curriculum vitae and the
Homecoming Queen was in response to your assertion that there are no
gender variant people at the Ivy league schools like Harvard, Princeton,
Yale, et al..

By the by, I was wondering why you referred to the person as "he" numerous
times. The person identifies as gender neutral, yet you have used the gender
designation of "he", was wondering what your reasoning was for this.

TVSURFER

10-26-2009, 03:37 AM

Additionally, my rationale for alluding to my curriculum vitae and the
Homecoming Queen was in response to your assertion that there are no
gender variant people at the Ivy league schools like Harvard, Princeton,
Yale, et al..

By the by, I was wondering why you referred to the person as "he" numerous
times. The person identifies as gender neutral, yet you have used the gender
designation of "he", was wondering what your reasoning was for this.
Should I have refered to "him" as "it"?:rolleyes: Let's be for real; I read the article.
This person is trying to find their (happy) self. Even he states that he doesn’t know how he would like to be identified. “I don't identify as a woman. It really just depends on the day and the occasion”, he said. I said “he” because that’s what he is, a male; his physical make up. If he doesn’t know what he is, then it’s something he has to deal with and come to some type of resolve.
:cool:

TurboMan

10-26-2009, 10:26 AM

RangeHova

11-26-2009, 09:11 AM

From what I have heard, living here in Atlanta, none of the 5 students are transgendered. It has simply become a fashion trend among some Atlanta Black gays to sport heels, purses, make up and feminine attire in general. I don't see it as discrimination against the TG or gay community no more than a ban on ballcaps and sagging jeans is discrimination against hip hop.

The school has a large number of out gay males and when other students have lashed out against them the school has worked hard to support those student's rights and freedoms to safely attend the college and to be respected by others.

The fact that the school has a dress code that goes across the board against any clothing that would not get you hired in corporate America is a good thing.

I feel what Peggy is saying but I think when she talks about her experience it is coming from a TS woman. These cases are not that. On top of that this is an all male college. I would hope that a TS would choose not to attend a all male school and then expect the college to accept her as a female. If you identify as a woman then don't apply to such a school. In essence you would be attempting to turn the school into a coed school. If women can not attend the school why allow a TS to attend. I would feel the same about a male (genetic or trans) trying to attend Spellman.

I'm sure that if they are on scholarship from such a acclaimed school they can get a scholarship at another school. Or they can just wait the four years to transition.

peggygee

11-27-2009, 04:22 PM

If women can not attend the school why allow a TS to attend. I would feel the same about a male (genetic or trans) trying to attend Spellman.

RangeHova, always a pleasure to hear from and have a discourse with you. :cool:

Your statement above begs the question should pre op MTF transwomen be
discriminated in being allowed to attend Spelman.

Alongst those some lines, should a biological female who is transitioning to
male be allowed to attend.

anonymoussonny

11-30-2009, 11:54 PM

MOST men who like men ... or penis + penis = ...... EXACTLY MY POINT!!! You got that?

No I didn't get that... I am in love with the feminine form and I am not going to argue with you about liking Men vs. TS/TG.

I don't want to start a war but I want to show you that generalizations are WRONG, no matter how cute you may be.

kilakali

12-01-2009, 01:56 AM

No I didn't get that... I am in love with the feminine form and I am not going to argue with you about liking Men vs. TS/TG.

I don't want to start a war but I want to show you that generalizations are WRONG, no matter how cute you may be.

She wont be on here no time soon. As a matter of fact i doubt if she will ever come back.

DirtySouth

12-01-2009, 12:43 PM

Sad news for the tg's? The institution was right to impose a stricter dress code! Fuck it's Morehouse, not Chittlin' Switch College! It's Morehouse; a historical Black College! I take pride in that, even if you have no connection!
I don't think I've ever heard of the boi's doing that at Harvard, Yale or Princeton! Is gayness flaunted at Notre Dame? Couldn't try this shit at the military academies! Nobody is against their gayness or their right to be gay, but not like this! All they are doing is shining an unnecessary spotlight on a Black institution when there isn't a need.
And, if the government wanted to take the funding from the school, I think Morehouse has a hell of a defense!
It's a shame anyone would suggest the fault lies with the college. There is nothing wrong with decorum and/or protocol which, these little boys seem to lack the knowledge! This site ask for as much in respect!
:cool:

I agree. It is a private college and those types of issues could quickly send the school image into a downward spiral.

We have to look at the big picture here.....

They may loose grants, private funding, recruitment, etc. behind closed doors on this issue if they did not react publicly. I hate that this is being made into a gay rights issue. IMO, if it's allowed and not contained, the school will loose its credibility and eventually meet it's demise. A lot of potential bright students and African American leaders of tomorrow would not go to Morehouse if they heard this was going on. Where would that leave our black institutions?

I believe that people have the right to express themselves, but to a certain extent - especially on private property. I agree that I don't think this is an attack on people's lifestyle/sexual identities. I think it is a restriction on a couple of students taking things to the extreme. My alma mater for instance, would allow a dress code up until a certain degree. If I went into an institution and a group of students decided to sport gang tats and colors on campus, the school would crack down on it. How is this any different? If they went into a 6 figure corporate job trying to cross dress, they would be booted. Why? Image. If the institution/business doesn't want their image to be displayed like that, they have a right to crack down on it on campus.

More conservative students have the right to study without distractions just as much as the cross dressing students have the right to dress the way they want to. So it's a stalemate. However, I think this is the proper solution and the school has a right to enforce this code.

At the end of the day, if those 5 students do not like it - just leave and contribute your tuition to a university that isn't so conservative. It's going to be really futile and ultimately damaging on the national stage to one of the only prestigious colleges we have as a people. It's not worth it.

bigdicki

12-01-2009, 02:42 PM

#1 - If federal funding gets snatched, so be it that is a choice Morehouse is making and honestly, given its graduates and endowment, it will do just fine I think.

#2 - If this is a question of gender identity, why did these students choose to go to, arguably, the most conservative HBCU FOR MEN, in the country? I empathize with them, but they chose to go to men's college despite being transgendered. That doesn't seem like a good choice.

#3 - I don't think this will cause a national outrage from the GLB community, the transgender community or the Black community. Most folks realize that Morehouse is conservative and not really the place to go if you are transgendered. Its almost like saying as an atheist, you decided to go to school at Bob Jones University.

Just my two cents.... now back to looking at phat asses and "shenises". :D