TGirls getting real jobs

[MrF]

I know there are stories of TGirls getting real jobs, but it seems that for each success story there are 10 failure stories. Here's my question.

Suppose a TGirl has male indentification, so when they apply for a job -- say, a normal retail store -- they may look passable but the ID flags them. Even if the manager is not supposed to exercise prejudice in hiring (there being a law forbidding discrimation against transgenders), they do it anyway. They'll say "we'll get back to you" and then .... never do. Then the agency that makes driver's licences cannot change the gender to female unless there's an SRS. And suppose the SRS is the desired goal of the TGirl but is too expensive ? Now what can she do ?

It's a serious question and I'd like a serious answer. I think it's not always just an excuse that they have trouble getting a job.

On another note, I'm wondering if anyone has considered making a charitable fund for SRS ? It seems to be a legit need. I personally cannot help someone for 10K$ but lots of concerned people could chip in 100$ and it could add up.

[Ms Remy M]

I know there are stories of TGirls getting real jobs, but it seems that for each success story there are 10 failure stories. Here's my question.

Suppose a TGirl has male indentification, so when they apply for a job -- say, a normal retail store -- they may look passable but the ID flags them. Even if the manager is not supposed to exercise prejudice in hiring (there being a law forbidding discrimation against transgenders), they do it anyway. They'll say "we'll get back to you" and then .... never do. Then the agency that makes driver's licences cannot change the gender to female unless there's an SRS. And suppose the SRS is the desired goal of the TGirl but is too expensive ? Now what can she do ?

It's a serious question and I'd like a serious answer. I think it's not always just an excuse that they have trouble getting a job.

On another note, I'm wondering if anyone has considered making a charitable fund for SRS ? It seems to be a legit need. I personally cannot help someone for 10K$ but lots of concerned people could chip in 100$ and it could add up.

Actually a few states allow tg's to get their 'F' without having SRS now.

[TVSURFER]

Actually a few states allow tg's to get their 'F' without having SRS now.

Can you tell us what states allow this?
:cool:

[kilakali]

Can you tell us what states allow this?
:cool:

California is one state...

[TVSURFER]

I know there are stories of TGirls getting real jobs, but it seems that for each success story there are 10 failure stories. Here's my question.

Suppose a TGirl has male indentification, so when they apply for a job -- say, a normal retail store -- they may look passable but the ID flags them. Even if the manager is not supposed to exercise prejudice in hiring (there being a law forbidding discrimation against transgenders), they do it anyway. They'll say "we'll get back to you" and then .... never do. Then the agency that makes driver's licences cannot change the gender to female unless there's an SRS. And suppose the SRS is the desired goal of the TGirl but is too expensive ? Now what can she do ?

.


Actually a few states allow tg's to get their 'F' without having SRS now


Can you tell us what states allow this?
:cool:


California is one state...
I just couldn't rationalize any state allowing the changing of gender without some documentation, yet there is http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2006/11/72174
:cool:

[Ms Remy M]

They do still require documentation from a physician.

PeggyGee site http://theipowa.org/ and that link you provided have link to Dr. Becky site http://www.drbecky.com/birthcert.html which is updated, though not all states have been updated as of 2010.

[peggygee]

They do still require documentation from a physician.

PeggyGee site http://theipowa.org/ and that link you provided have link to Dr. Beck site http://www.drbecky.com/birthcert.html which is updated, though not all states have been updated as of 2010.

Just getting in late from work, about to have a late dinner.

Will have some responses to this thread, hopefully on the morrow.

In the interim, here's a link to current information on identification, licenses,
amending birth certificates, changing VA - DOD records, etc.:

http://theipowa.org/?q=content/license-and-registration-please

http://theipowa.org/?q=content/legal-indentification-information

http://theipowa.org/?q=content/how-can-i-have-my-va-and-dod-records-changed-reflect-my-new-name-and-gender-identity

[CANE]

Can you tell us what states allow this?
:cool:

I think Pennsylvania is one also...

[peggygee]

In today's tough economic times just about everyone may experience difficulty in obtaining gainful employment, and this is of course true for transwomen. Today we will take a look at a few issues impacting transwomen seeking employment.

When applying for employment it is very important that your identification is congruent with the person that they see standing before them. If you say your name is "Eve" but your documentation says "Steve", then that's going to be problematic.

Sadly, some women will spend a small fortune on their transition, but will neglect the very small cost and effort it takes to amend their records. It is extremely easy to have one's name changed, and as has been pointed out many states will amend a driver's license to have an "F" marker. Though they may not amend the birth certificate if gender reassignment surgery has not occurred. Some states will change the gender marker on a birth certificate without GRS, others may not, and some will leave the gender marker blank upon amendment. (http://theipowa.org/?q=content/license-and-registration-please)

Another problem that some women may encounter is a "no match" letter from the Social Security Administration. A "no match" occurs because the SSA keeps information on everyone who has a social security number, including name, date of birth, and gender. When a person is hired and the employer submits their Social Security number to the SSA. The SSA checks the number against their database. If the data submitted does not match with the SSA database, the SSA may send a no-match notification to the employer in an attempt to clarify the discrepancy.

Changing one's name with the SSA is a very simple matter. You would merely fill out this form: http://www.ssa.gov/online/ss-5.pdf which is an application for a Social Security card. Legally changing one's gender marker with SSA would require a letter from a surgeon or attending physician verifying gender reassignment surgery has been completed. This letter must clearly identify you as the person desiring to change their gender marker.

We would be remiss if we didn't state that a woman should not let the fear of a no-match letter keep her from seeking employment if she so desires. There are many pre op women working, and the SSA is fully aware of the impediment that a no-match letter can place on seeking employment, and does not capriciously "out" women by sending a letter to employers.

Another barrier for a transwomen seeking employment is any prior or pending criminal matters that the woman has on her record. A harsh reality is that during the transition process some transwomen may run into legal difficulties because of survival-based crimes around drug use and sex work. If at all possible she should clear up these matters before seeking employment or at a minimum request a copy of her criminal records so that she knows what they contain, and so that she is able to properly address them if they come up in a job interview.

She may also consider having her records sealed or expunged. If the crimes were primarily misdemeanors then this may be relatively easy to do. She would petition the court or appear before the magistrate that adjudicated her case, or follow the procedure for her state and jurisdiction.

Other impediment s for a transwoman seeking employment may be not having a verifiable job history or sufficient marketable skills. Due to societal discrimination some transwomen may not have been able to finish high school, let alone attend college. As a result they may not have the skills that an employer is seeking, and they aren’t able to start building a work history. One option in this case is for her to continue her education is through programs that will assist her get her GED if she needs it.

And if she is in need of further training she may do so via on-line courses, or at the local community college, college, or vocational school. If she is fearful of being discriminated against in school, she needn’t be as the vast majority of schools have in place a zero-tolerance policy against discrimination based upon gender identity and expression. And in most instances there is financial assistance available which would cover the costs of her tuition and books.

Also due to the very high costs of transition, some women will enter the sex trade to pay for their various medical needs. The years spent in the industry may result in gaps in their employment history that cannot easily be explained. Stating that you were married and were a stay at home Mother, or were taking care of a sick relative might suffice as a credible reason for the gaps in your work history. However, volunteering or even working at a job that doesn’t particularly pay all that much will allow you close some of those gaps.

As we close we have in the past tried to provide listings of trans-friendly employment opportunities on this and many other forums. (http://theipowa.org/?q=content/employment)We apologize that we haven’t been as diligent as we could be in updating those listings, but will try to do better in the coming year.

Hope to see you around the water cooler. ;)

[peggygee]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/brain_am.gif


This thread made me think of a few things, that have kept me in good stead in my years in the workplace.

I hope some of it will be useful to someone.

Things a person can do to stay off the radar in the first place:

1. Have your paperwork in order, if all your documents are "who you are supposed to be". that can keep your name out of peoples mouths.

2. The harsh reality is the better a person can "pass" the more people will leave you alone. I fully realize that’s unfair and cruel, but it is factual. Whatever you can do to help that process, do so. If a girl wears provocative clothing, she should try to leave the "hoochie" look till Friday, and try to wear what women her age in that company wear.

If you need "work- cosmetic procedures", start saving your money and on a long holiday, get it done. But, don't leave work on Friday a 36A, and come back Monday a 40DD, if you must do that, try it in winter, and then keep the “girls” under a bulky sweater.

3. Don't confide your situation to the first person, or any person who befriends you, unless there is a very compelling reason to so.

4. KNOW YOUR JOB, DO YOUR JOB. "The business of America," President Calvin Coolidge said in 1925, "is business." Companies are in business to make money, if you are helping them do that, then you are cool with them. If you have a million doctors appointments, or your "mones" are giving you mood swings, you will need to "twerk" it out.

5. Finally, “DON’T 'boink' the help”. Yeah, I know Ray-Ray, down on the loading docks is “fine”. And he is always taking his shirt off, and his muscles gleam from sweat when he’s working. But when something goes wrong in your relationship, he will put your business on “Front Street”.

[MrF]

^ Wow ! Thanks for the thoughtful reply, peggygee. Also thanks to the others. Lots of good info here.

[peggygee]

^ Wow ! Thanks for the thoughtful reply, peggygee. Also thanks to the others. Lots of good info here.


^ Gee, peggygee. I was half expecting from you the usual encyclopedic explosion of info ------

You're most welcome.

There goes my usual encyclopedic explosion of info.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/arg-bomb.gif

:D

[anonymoussonny]

Interestingly enough I have never employed or had a TG apply for a job with me openly (or clandestinely either...LOL). Nor even submit an application. I am sure my staff's would have informed me of this happening as of course it would have been all the gossip. I will say though that a passable man or woman would probably get through a government/public sector screening much easier than a private sector opportunity. Primarily because of the laws in place that have to be followed consistently and are scrutinized more regularly than in the private sector...

I have been interested in knowing what career fields are more attrractive to TG's, other than ones that involve regular nudity, money exchanges for services/companionship and/or clandestine meetings. Now seriously, yeah I thought about this for selfish reasons... But if you really want to meet and date a 'stable' TG woman isn't that the best place to look?

PS: Dont crucify me for the 'stable' characterization, everybody here knows what I mean.:cool:

[Ms Remy M]

Thanks for taking the time to comment on this thread and provide such great information. As always, your post are the best!

[peggygee]

Interestingly enough I have never employed or had a TG apply for a job with me openly (or clandestinely either...LOL). Nor even submit an application. I am sure my staff's would have informed me of this happening as of course it would have been all the gossip. I will say though that a passable man or woman would probably get through a government/public sector screening much easier than a private sector opportunity. Primarily because of the laws in place that have to be followed consistently and are scrutinized more regularly than in the private sector...

I have been interested in knowing what career fields are more attrractive to TG's, other than ones that involve regular nudity, money exchanges for services/companionship and/or clandestine meetings. Now seriously, yeah I thought about this for selfish reasons... But if you really want to meet and date a 'stable' TG woman isn't that the best place to look?

PS: Dont crucify me for the 'stable' characterization, everybody here knows what I mean.:cool:

It is true that many States as well as the Federal government have in place protections against discrimination based upon gender identity and discrimination:

A Federal agency cannot discriminate against an employee or applicant with respect to the terms, conditions or privileges of employment on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, disability, marital status, political affiliation, sexual orientation, gender identity, or any other factor that is not related to job performance. Discrimination on these bases is prohibited by one or more of the following statutes: 5 U.S.C. 2302(b)(1), (b)(10); 29 U.S.C. 206(d); 29 U.S.C. 633a; 29 U.S.C. 791; and 42 U.S.C. 200e-16.

However, I feel that a motivated, and qualified transwoman could just as easily obtain employment in the private sector.

[MrF]

The second part of my thread-starter was a question: What about a charity to fund the SRS ?

For many Tgirls the SRS is not "just an elective" procedure. It's something they really want; it's essential to their identity. Having the SRS would help solve the employment problem. Also, and how true this is I don't really know, I've heard it claimed that men or lesbian women are more likely to take a TGirl seriously as potential lovers if they have the SRS. Like I said, I'm not sure about the last sentence, so if someone thinks they know better they may comment. But the sentences before that I'm pretty sure about.

Most people who care about TGirls could afford to donate ~$100 for such a charity. But hardly anyone would donate the $10,000 which, I think, is the minimum. Unless they're very rich so that $10,000 is small change, a donor would only give that much if the TGirl was his wife.

[peggygee]

Thanks for taking the time to comment on this thread and provide such great information. As always, your post are the best!

Don't want to have my head on swole, and or a legend in my own mind, but
did want to say you're welcome if you were referring to me.

And as MrF said, thanks to everyone for making this topic a stimulating and
enlightening one.

[peggygee]

The second part of my thread-starter was a question: What about a charity to fund the SRS ?

For many Tgirls the SRS is not "just an elective" procedure. It's something they really want; it's essential to their identity. Having the SRS would help solve the employment problem. Also, and how true this is I don't really know, I've heard it claimed that men or lesbian women are more likely to take a TGirl seriously as potential lovers if they have the SRS. Like I said, I'm not sure about the last sentence, so if someone thinks they know better they may comment. But the sentences before that I'm pretty sure about.

Most people who care about TGirls could afford to donate ~$100 for such a charity. But hardly anyone would donate the $10,000 which, I think, is the minimum. Unless they're very rich so that $10,000 is small change, a donor would only give that much if the TGirl was his wife.

I agree that in many if not most cases GRS is not a elective surgery, or something that a woman "wants", but rather it is often a live-saving operation, and at a minimum improves a woman's quality of life.

There are a few charities that will help women with rent, fuel expenses and the like, but none that I know of that will assist with transition costs.

The closest to that would be insurance from a woman's employer that will cover HRT, therapy, and in some instances GRS.

Yes, I feel that that are some who would contribute to a fund like this, but I get the sense that many men wouldn't contribute, as they would prefer the woman stay pre op. If she was his significant other that might change, as he would be most concerned with her ultimate happiness, but there too he may be fearful that she may leave him after she gets GRS.

[Ms Remy M]

Don't want to have my head on swole, and or a legend in my own mind, but
did want to say you're welcome if you were referring to me.

And as MrF said, thanks to everyone for making this topic a stimulating and
enlightening one.

Yep, I am referring to you. Sorry I was on my cell typing and neglected to add the appropriate Quote. TS Sexy Chanel is dearly missed here too though, as her post are always much appreciated too.