.. and their photographers/promoters have nothing but utter contempt for their patrons and admirers? Or is the contempt limited to just a few?
Just curious as to how the girls and their promoters view their average admirer.
:confused:
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.. and their photographers/promoters have nothing but utter contempt for their patrons and admirers? Or is the contempt limited to just a few?
Just curious as to how the girls and their promoters view their average admirer.
:confused:
I'm starting to get a little comtempt for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixie Normous
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
http://www.myfreewallpapers.net/cart...s/sad-bear.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
It was actually a serious question and I'll tell you the basis for my asking.
I looked in on another T-Swallow Forum last night and there were numerous posts by girls who were openly putting down their admirers as "tranny-chasers". They seemed to be more angry and contemptuos of them chasing after them than grateful that they were willing to fork over multiple hundreds of "roses" for dates. They'd talk about a guys forking over thousands as of they were garbage! :(
While I don't see any of that type of discourse coming from T-Girls here, I was curious if it's commonplace in the T-industry and to be quite honest, I did get the drift from KillerKelli (sp.) that he shared somewhat in the mindset of the girls whose comments wre complaining about, rather than being thankful for patron's advances and business.
Just like most women have great bitch potential. The potential for a T-girl to be a T-bitch is even greater! It's really all tied up and entangled within the human DNA. Treachery, deceit, connivance, and passive-aggressive behavior are all bitch-like traits. Men also have these same traits. However, I've personally found them to be more prevalent amongst T-girls than any other group.
That's why gays can come together, organize and execute a political agenda and the T-girls can't. They're too busy back-biting, bickering, critisizing, clocking, and reading one another. It's has really just become a part of their culture to bitch and be negative.
Now that's not to say that all of them are that way. However, most are that way. Most all of them pick and choose their moments to be sweet and obliging, but that's just one side. Most of them have a bitch side that just must come out!
So one minute you're sitting next to sweet and adorable "Peaches". The next minute, you're sitting next to "The Incredible Hoe"!
All good points! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Koanbred
What on Earth are you talking about? I see your comment about the tgirls, but I'd like to hear your example about "their photographers/promoters..."Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixie Normous
Also, who is a tgirl promoter exactly? Are you just referring to anyone who cheerleads for a model, or an actual promoter in the club/event sense of the word.
Regarding the tgirl portion of said topic, I think working as an escort can make many girls 'jaded'. They don't have time for people bullshitting around or just trying to talk their ear off when they can be dealing with a real client, to me, that's just good business sense. Also, some guys sit and try to offer all manner of wild dreams to these girls, which is all just an attempt to get laid for discount or free. They get tired of hearing that shit, and rightly so. You have to remember, escorts are doing it as means to an end. You approach them respectfully and treat them like a human being and not just a fuck object you may get a better response.
Hmmm, you must have missed the 3 day Transgender Conference in Philly this past week, very informative and postive atmosphere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koanbred
I've found this is something that occurs throughout society and isn't relegated to just one group of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koanbred
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy757Photog
I was reading posts and threads on a t-girl theme forum. I won't name the forum. On it, most had nothing nice to say about any of their clients it seems, and in fact, called them gay, because "they were chasing their dicks" (their words, not mine).
The men who sponsored them, whther photographers, webmasters, friends, pimps possibly, and what have you, were also fairly contemptuos of the girls' patrons and admirers.
I don't see any of the girls openly criticizing admirers and clients here on this forum, but on that one, it was commonplace, and I didn't really read that much of it. :(
I believe your comments refer to only escorts or those in the sex industry in general and i personally believe this is a common theme with T-girls, genetic females and males and as Remy pointed out it is a job, a business, so the girls are used to hearing the same shit over and over again. Of course there are the exceptions but after all we are ALL people and given the situation most of us would be the same.
I've dated and lived with many GG strippers. I know very well the games and disdain they can have for even their best tippers, but on that forum it went way beyond that. They speak as though anyone who "chases" them is dirt. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by thepiedpiper
Try looking at it from their perspective. Many transwomen spend their lives trying to achieve their look, fighting tooth and nail for acceptance. Many may suffer one failed relationship after another, especially with 'DL' guys. So as a tgirl to have one guy after another simply lusting after their cock despite the beautiful visage they present, it leads them to feel guys are chasing after their dicks. Again, treating tgirls as equally respected human beings and not just a sexual object would be the best way to avoid this stigmatism. Without more evidence I can only assume it was a particular thread that drew such remarks so it seems like they all feel that way, but I've rarely met a girl who felt that way 100% of the time about 100% of the guys they meet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixie Normous
Most of these girls offer sexual services for "roses". Being steeped in the provider business, selling their sexuality, not their brilliance of mind or empathy. If they're selling it, there are buyers. To hold the buyers of their wares in contempt, simply for availing themselves of those services, doesn't make much sense despite your good explanation that should serve as the logical explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy757Photog
Hey there Remy757!
I've been to quite a few transgender events as I am a strong advocate of transgender rights. I've been able to live within the loose threads of the T community. Of course, you have the educated T-girls, the financially successful T-girls, and you have the majority of T-girls. I'm only reffering to the 24/7 T-girls, who only know but one way to live___, as women! The overwhelming majority of these girls are the doormats of society. They are viewed as unemployable misfits by society-at-large and therefore, have few areas of employment from which to choose. Usually, you will find them living along the margins of society drawing from social security, welfare, and what they can hussle off of the streets. They become victims of society and are forced to live by the dictates of those who respect them the least.
Ironically enough, these T-girls the ones most denigrated by society who unfortunately are the most resistant to organization, political strategy, and its execution. There are also others who can afford to go to Southern Comfort and belong to Crossdressers Clubs as well, who back-bite, are envy-ridden, and jealous. They therefore, sit back like the women they are, and look for flaws in other T-girls in order to elevate themselves at the expense of other "sisters".
What an exercise in futility when powerful elements of society are working tirelessly to prevent your right to equal employment, housing, and your fundamental right to exist!
I've witnessed many LGBT events, rallies, and protests before. None are so self-hate filled, as the transgender events! It almost reminds me of another group of people who find it difficult to unite for a common cause...
Wish I could have witnessed what happened in Philly, if it was different. That would have been refreshing, indeed!
Love,
Koanbred
Sure there are, Koan! That brand of hatred is alive, well, and thriving in many places. Just read through the bash DixieNormous thread for an example!Quote:
Originally Posted by Koanbred
:D
there are a few girls on this forum (who I am sure don't need to be named) that seem to have the same generalized negative attitude about many of their fans. But like Remy said certain life events can harden their disposition. Remember for every kind, positive "
admirer" or fan there is probably a couple dozen assholes.
PREACH!!! "They become victims of society and are forced to live by the dictates of those who respect them the least."
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4mystuffin
I refuse to believe that there could be any assholes among US! :D
Again, your example is too general for me to respond appropriately, but I will go on the assumption that the transgender events you witnessed where of the Ball/Pageant variety? Those are competitive scenarios were bickering and other negative responses are bound to occur, similar to a sporting event where fans root for their team and boo the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koanbred
What I was referring to was a transgender conference where like-minded individuals got together to discuss employment rights, legal procedures with transitioning (name change, sex change, etc) meeting employers who WILL hire tg's, and many other related seminars. These conferences happen throughout the year and throughout the country. If your only exposure to tg's is through those that escort than that may skew your overall view of transexuals but know that doesn't represent the entire group of transgender people. I will admit that I too have met many tg's that easily fall into the demographic you described above though.
I think Dixie Normous has a point on this one. I have been seen as a chaser to most girls I think, but I have been/am a friend/something more to a few. Those few talk about dudes who pay them LONG bread like dogshit. For some reason this is worst when talking about white dudes. Now some of these dudes do just want them for a swinging dick and titties. Hell, I have wanted most for the same. HOWEVER, if these dudes respect them and treat them well why view them with disgust? Hell almost 100% of these girls have some trade that THEY use for dick and when they are not doing that they willfully sell their body for money. It's all good to me, but don't vilify someone because they do what you do. What's that about glass houses and all that? :rolleyes:
Just because you feel shitted on doesn't mean you should shit on everybody else. That's the same lame excuse my boys from youth give for robbin', slangin' and bangin'.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4mystuffin
Well there are a few reasons that these girls get what we see as fucked up attitudes. Here is two reasons that happened yesterday and today here in the Detroit area. True stories to two of my friends.
Yesterday, client goes to girls house. They are in the bedroom messing around, no money collected yet. Client goes into bathroom. Climbs out the bathroom window, thru the Rose Bush, gets into his car and drives away. WTF? Get the money first no matter what.
Today, girl goes on outcall to North Western, really nice suburban townhouse. Gets to the door, ring ring ring no answer. Calls the dude on the phone and rings the bell again at the same time. Ring a ding ding! no answer but she sees the guy in the window. She drives away to her house 10 Miles away. Gets in the door and the guy sends her a text: I'm only 16, it's against the law and my MOM was upstairs. WTF? Bad news to retaliate on this one if it's true.
So with just two stories in two days, you can see why their skin is scorched towards clients in general. Some attitudes are worse than others though.
Answer this! Why in the fuck do guys waiste their time doing shit like that? Why would you want to be called back and be humiliated over the phone from a person you just fucked over or anything else?
LMAO! I was also told today from said girl, that a couple of guys have called for an outcall, be in the house, don't answer, and be jacking off in the window. WTF?
Insanity is alive and well!
I am not coming to any bullshit dude's defense, but as always, there are 3 sides to every story: the girl's story, the dude's story and the truth which is typically somewhere in between. Regardless, like I said, being shit on by one person is no excuse to shit on everyone else. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DYNACORD
I agree with that. Now these two girls don't make a habit out of downgrading all their cleints. I just thought I would share some stories that just now happened and tend to leave a bad taste in your mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdicki
The problem here Remy757, is that most of us enjoy sex. Usually there are certain attributes about our mates that we find attractive that draws us towards them. At that point, they become sexual objects. Practically every "genuine" relationship involving sex, includes at least two individuals who mutually serve as sex objects. In general, the younger the individual, the more this tends to be true.
Also, I've found that most MTF/Boyfriend relationships don't last due to faulty assumptions about finances, psych-games, fraud, and money schemes. For example, the T-girl feels as though she has a man that will take care of her by both financially and psychologically supporting her, while building a strong romantic relationship. Meanwhile, the guy is usually thinking like so many guys think. The guy just wants to milk the cow for as long as he can and as cheaply as possible. He might make a small initial investment like a purchase of groceries, or perhaps payment of the month's rent or utilities. However, it usually will not recur in any substantial or predictive manner. The T-woman is looking for that rent and/or utilities to get paid on a regular basis. When it does not happen, the relationship begins to sour and yet another 2 month relationship is ending.
Sometimes, it's the convicted felon who finds it difficult to find legally gainful employment who decides to play upon T-girls. Their goal is to have a place to stay until they "get back on their feet". They therefore, play the role of the completely devoted mate, until they really do find legally gainful employment (which is rare), or they find a GG willing to do the same, or they find another T-girl willing to sacrifice more fringe benefits for the "privilege" of having a "man" in what would appear to be a "promising" relationship. However, many of these guys would prefer to be their pimps as opposed to being their lovers. Some even manage to create the pimp/prostitute relationship out of the seemingly "promising" and so-called, "romantic" relationship.
It would appear that in many relationships (including straight ones), everyone is either a somebody's pimp or somebody's hoe. It all depends upon the degrees of transparency, equality, and sharing involved in the relationship.
In general, most T-girls would fare better, if they were to set their goal upon an education more so than any man, or transitioning, or anything else in their youth. Once they've obtained an education and can become gainfully employed, they should then set out to transition and find honest playmates. Education and gainful employment comes far before transitioning, sex, or a relationship.
I feel as though I have seriously strayed off the topic, but that's ok!
Love,
Koanbred
Good points Bigdicki.
Koanbred, paragraphs 1-3 I agree with.
^ that one, not so much but I see what you are saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koanbred
That may sound plausible for those who choose to transition for reasons other than truely wanting to live their life as a female. However; many genuine transexuals experince what is called Gender Identity Disorder (GID) or Gender Dysmorphia depending on the professional you are talking to. To deny them what essentially breaks down to their treatment (transitioning, hormones) is akin to saying a person diagonised as being Bi-Polar can't have their treatment until graduating college.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koanbred
I do agree education and employment are very important and should be high on the list of goals instead of the after thought it appears to be to some, but that statement can easily be applied to other groups of people aside from transexuals as well.
You have brought up an interesting point though. The trend is going somewhat the opposite of what you suggest. Transexuals are starting their transition and hormone regiments at progressively younger ages, even before puberty in many cases. Some argue that, before puberty is too young to start such treatment or lifestyle as the child doesn't yet know who they are. On the other hand, the sooner the transition process is started, especially with regards to puberty, the better the results from meds and overall 'passability' later in life, which has direct benefits to a transexuals 'peace of mind' . The male bone structure and other physical attributes can be dramatically reduced with hormone regiments taken before or around puberty, but can't be reversed from these same hormone regiments after the male characteristics have developed, then surgery is the only option. Have you taken this into consideration?
Good points Remy. I saw that he missed the fact that girls need to start hormones early because the effect is not a good one later on in years.
All TGirls aren't looking for a sugar daddy. That's a fact. Some are looking for a loving relationship. They exist in the TS world just like they do in the straight or gay world. Don't get it twisted. Granted there are some really fucked up ones in all worlds too. Just seems like we only talk about the TS ones. Because of the Site of course.
So when a heroin addict is deprived of heroin, I've seen them get the shakes, their eyes do weird things, and they get cramps everywhere.
When crack addicts are deprived of crack, they begin to look strange, they start nervously pacing back and forth, looking down on the ground and they begin to pick things up (hoping that they've struck gold and perhaps picked up a piece of crack).
So when a T-girl deprives herself of the proper gender expression via behavior, clothing, make-up, accessories, and the like, what internal feelings might she have and how would these feelings be made manifest externally, so that the observer can plainly see dysfunctionality.
I would think that there would be at the very least, a minimal amount of depression experienced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koanbred
Happens to me everytime I load 700+ pounds on the Olympic bar and lay under it! :D
So many things to follow up on and respond to...
First, and most trivial, I'm just now realizing that, tranny chaser is a derisive term coming from a t-girl. I mean I always was aware of the phrase's inherent honest crudeness but I'm starting to see here and there that it's indeed an insult. I blame the article in the link below (8th paragraph) for misleading me. (only slightly kidding)
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/02/nyregion/thecity/02chase.html?_r=1
I'm not a linguist but it is a serious hobby/interest of mine:
It's becoming more and more accepted that to verbally reduce someone to their most distinguishing feature is rude if not insulting. For example, Jew is less respectful than jewish person; schizophrenic less than 'person suffering schizophrenia', and so on. I find that same rudeness in what we, both tgirls and admirers, do to each other.
I for some reason am able to avoid most of this contempt. As I try to come correct as possible, to treat them as much like girls as they are and as I see them.
On a date with a girl, especially a first one, I intend to impress. Frankly I haven't very much money to offer them, I must go on the contrast I draw between myself and other chasers. I make it clear how highly they are respected and admired without sacrificing my own self-respect.
I've witnessed a guy walk up to a very famous and pretty tg model in a bar here in NYC and ask her how big it was. She then tells another tg who was there what he said and they talk sharing their disgust for a moment.... I finally understood...
There are etiquette and manners in every community and they exist to make social interactions more respectful and positive for everyone involved. They probably just feel they deserve that respect like everyone else. I mean if I asked a GG what her bra size was out of nowhere, I'd probably get slapped.
I am not trying to justify the contempt we may sometimes receive, but imagine you were chased, coveted and paid to expose and offer access to your most personal and possibly undesired feature The original question mentioned that they should be grateful/happy for the attention. I think they do feel that, it just gets old...quick.
Remember you're not a tranny chaser; you're a person who happens to find the transgendered girl attractive sexually. They're probably just annoyed at the lack of consideration that being objectified reveals. Take out the personhood of anyones identity and they'll feel insulted.
Im not passing the buck by the way but this does have a great deal to do with low esteem levels.
Im currently dating a tgirl who's gorgeous, fun and makes me happy (not just physically). Ive been seen by other tgirls with her and its come to my attention that there's a lot of backbiting and undermining going on. This always happens with a ts girlfriend. Their friends fuck it up. The "I fucked your boyfriend thing" got me into trouble a bit on our first damn date. And it seems that many girls not as far along in progress are critical of her/us. Firsthand opinion: She's happy, Im happy and others are jealous....
Thank you all btw....kinda found this discussion awesome. Glad its not just me.
WELCOME OH SEEKER OF KNOWLEDGE!!Quote:
Originally Posted by strollmodel
http://ic.hobh.org/forums/images/smi...lcomewagon.gif
Just stick with us seasoned pros, and we'll be your guide to this whole wacky but wonderful T-Thing!!
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes: :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Dixie Normous
...are you serious...this is your response, I'm done with this conversation... :mad: Your attempt to equate a transgender persons medical needs to that of a common drug abuser is far from humorous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koanbred
Haha the classic "Why you hatin on me" thread. I cant stand the uppity attitudes. But there's so many dudes dickridin that give them whatever the hell they want that it's no surprise their mind has become corrupt. They need to get the fuck outta here wit that tranny chasin bullshit though. Do I get called pussy chaser when I wanna talk to a regular GG, or tittyhound or asshound? Fuck no. You wanna be a damn woman? Then realize that men chase ass and tittys all day every day and now you fall into that category.
Haha! Speak on it joe! That is the realest thing said in this thread. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by werwt22
Dear Remy757!
My goal was not to denigrate T-girls or to upset you. We all must remember that "common drug abusers" are human beings too. They may be human beings with extra added needs hoisted upon themselves, against themselves, but the need is there, and is well established as a need that is readily made manifest by their external reactions that can be observed as withdrawal symptoms.
Perhaps the parallel that I attempted to draw here was just a bit askew, I'm not certain. Perhaps I could have used the addiction that all the living have for food and the physical and psychological symptoms displayed when one is deprived of food. I don't know!
I just wanted to get a clear picture as to how T-girls may feel if they were to go for extended periods of time without expressing their true genders, through dress. For some reason, I immediately related the crossdressing to be parallel to a drug addict's "fix". I've seen T-girls who would leave their regular jobs as men and crossdress for the night to go to either a party or "Joe's Tavern" after midnight. They always seem to be a completely different people. The quiet and reserved, can become outspoken and flambouyant! The aggressive and obnoxious, can become more layed-back and chilled with extra sultry senuously sexual overtones. It's almost as though they breathe a sigh of relief and become the real and unrepressed!
Just like all the rest of us, drug addicts, the bi-polar, and the transgender as well, all have needs. Generally speaking, if these needs aren't met, a certain amount of suffering is experience, most often at the expense of the patient and those within their immediate environment, as well.
I apologize, if I've offended anyone here. That was certainly not my intention, as I am absolutely in love with the transgender community.
I just want it to get it's SKIT together!!!
Love,
Koanbred
PS.
Sorry, Remy757photog! I really do love you!
The first time that I heard the term "tranny chaser", was straight out of the mouth of a pre-op trassexual soon to be a post-op transsexual, concerning a guy at a bar who offered to buy them all drinks, as they were just about to leave. They all stayed for the extra 5-10 minutes so that they could reap the benefit of the free drinks and promptly left. Upon exit, the transexual that I'm refering to said, "Damn stupid-ass tranny chaser, now what does he think he's gonna get for spending all that money!"
I've since heard the term used by a variety of people who were members of the LGBT community and thus far, I haven't heard any verbal contempt for the expression. However, I do see your point!
You know if you read the posts whenever a tgirl becomes post-op it become very clear from a lot of responses that this is indeed a fact; a very true reality for them. for a lot of guys on here they are no longer desireable no matter how beautiful they are.Quote:
So as a tgirl to have one guy after another simply lusting after their cock despite the beautiful visage they present, it leads them to feel guys are chasing after their dicks.
That's correct. Not with that other-worldly, artificial, man-made plastic pussy they're not! Anyone ever take a good luck, feel, or smell of one of those artificial pussies in proximal comparison to a REAL ONE? :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by roninva
it's like a bowlfull of wax fruit compared to the real thing! They're not women, they're no longer men, they're in fucking limbo, as they find out all too soon after it's too late! :(
So then, are all T-girls in limbo?
Since they're not really women, perhaps we should consider them as men?
Is that what you're saying, Dixie?
Personally, I believe that's what drew us to the Pre-op T-girls in the first place was the very fact that they had a penis. There is something that most of us males here within this forum find particularly attractive about a "female" with a penis. It's almost like a prerequisite!
I think that it would be fair to say that most of us would prefer a pre-op to a GG and we'd prefer a nice GG to a really slammin' post-op...