[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCXHPKhRCVg[/ame]
nuff said
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[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCXHPKhRCVg[/ame]
nuff said
I agree with him.
I think they should all eat bacon and get the fuck over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SHAUN
Did I mention I hate religion..... That film was made by rightwing Christians to start this shit to begin with. So there's plenty of blame to go around.
I got no time for any of 'em either... Far as I'm concerned: jews, christians AND muslims are all monotheistic, misogynistic religions from the desert of the Middle East... FORCED on the people of Europe, FORCED on the people of Africa, FORCED on the people of the Americas... Only China and the Far East seemed to to evade these god-bothering fucktards, and I hope for their sake it stays that way.
I should add though, to be fair to the guy who made the film: he was an Egytian Christian (a "Coptic Christian") and his kind used to flourish ALL OVER the Middle East, whereas now they are practically an Endangered Species...
In fact, the Middle East used to be FULL of jews, christians, muslims and pagans...... But now, it's 98% muslim... I wonder why that is?????
So, even though the Egyptian guy is possibly another religious nut, I cant be too heavy on him for making a film that undermines the religion which is largely, if not exclusively responsible for his people's extermination acroos that entire region.... If they were Polar Bears, more people would give shit... funny old world
blue eyed devil
This is a rather simplistic view in my opinion. Do remember that those in the middle east who are rioting make up less than 1% of the Muslims in the region and the other 99% do not consider those inciting hate and violence as fellow Muslims. Although I agree with some of the statements made in the video by no means does that apply to the whole of Islam as quoted... in exactly the same way an extremist Muslim talking shit about Christianity would not apply to every Christian.
I'll always defend the right to free speech but before people use that right perhaps they should look at the bigger picture. :cool:
When German army officers were dragging jews, gays, gypsies, communists etc to the concentration camp and gas chambers they probably only represented 1% of the German population (to paraphrase your quaint statistical analysis)
However, as appaling as their actions were, THEY were not the root of the problem; the problem was the other 99% of Germans who did
FUCK ALL
to stop them, or attempt to stop them, or at the very least, shame them.
I don't know if you actually have carried out a survey of the muslims on this planet as regards their general feeling for fellow muslims who slice off little girls labia and clitoris and then stitch them up to form a biological fleshy chastity belt, who throw acid in girls's faces for wanting to go to school, who routinely exececute homosexuals, lesbians, and women accused of adultery (even if they are victims of rape)....
....Or perhaps you offered those numbers in order to establish your own impeccable liberal credentials, as if to prove to the rest of us neanderthal westerners that we should all try and be a bit more like you - philosophical and reasonable, and, well, perfect really.
Listen, maybe you haven't noticed, but monotheistic religion is making a BIG comeback....
We in the west (thanks to our own poets and prophets and philosophers) have very successfully managed to knock the shit out of the ridiculous dogmas of Judaism and Christianity... But unfortunately, monotheism is on the rise again, bigtime, in the clothes of Islam...
I not anti-islam; I am anti-monotheism, and it just so happens that Islam is where it's at right now, not just among the extremists, but more pertinently among the gazillions of drones who just stay quiet about it.
That so-called 99% you speak of are at best a bunch of fucking COWARDS.... And more than likely they are actually collaboraters.... The oppressed of those lands are BEGGING us to speak UP... Now is not the time to place your perfect liberal sentimentalism ahead of their flesh and blood...
And one last thing: Like I said, I got no time for Christian nutjobs either... but don't give me any of that tired old shit about "... Hey, we in the West have plently of christian extremists".... Errrrr, no we don't; they are a pathetically TINY fraction of our society, totally isolated and on the fringes of our wprld... And what's more, whenever they do occasionally pop their silly nutjob heads up... They get slapped the fuck down and humiliated.
blue eyed devil
PS A Government Minister in Pakistan has put up a £1 million reward to any person/group that MURDERS the creators of that film... But hey, don't sweat, I guess he was just one of the 1%, so not really worth worrying about, right?...Like Bill Hicks would say: MOVE ALONG PEOPLE, NOTHING TO SEE HERE.....
Actually, this guy (The Amazing Atheist) says it better than me.
And he's funnier too.
Muslim World: CALM YOUR TIT DOWN lol
blue eyed devil
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a93_1348272935
You're correct, I haven't surveyed every Muslim in the world but neither has the dude in the first video posted. However he can quite easily use blanket statements such 'we are sick of Islam' or 'we are sick of Muslims'. Now I'm pretty sure he doesn't mean every single Muslim in the whole world but I don't know for sure that he doesn't mean that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SHAUN
Now no one can say that every Muslim in the world has gone out and rioted, killed US foreign diplomats or declared war on the west because this statement would be ridiculous. This is the exact point I am trying to make here. There are far too many people in the west and equally the middle east who blanket their opinion of an entire nation or religion with one opinion or set of behaviours and unfortunately a lot of people who then listen to these statements believe them as some sort of gospel. This then leads to what we have seen in Asia and North Africa recently - people hitting the streets burning the shit out of everything.
In reply to your first paragraph please show me where the majority of Muslims practice this behaviour. Also in reply to the routine execution of homosexuals try looking at the unlimited amount of hate crimes that occur in the west against homosexuals..
I will agree there are some activities that occur in the middle east that do not anywhere else and I do not agree with. For example in some areas of Iran it is common to force homosexual males to go through SRS and become female in order to start a relationship with another man. This may tip the percentage in this case over 1% but again it is not a common practice as a whole.
In reply to your later statements that the majority of Muslims do nothing.. what exactly do you expect them to do? Go out in to the streets and declare war on the extremists? In the west the only time we seem to do anything about our own christian extremists is if they attack on home soil e.g. Oklahoma or more recently the attack on a mosque in the US.
I'm not excusing that a Pakistani Government official placed a bounty of 100k to find and kill the maker of that film but again not everyone of the Muslim faith did. Granted this perhaps promotes more Muslims to join in but it doesn't all sudden make me hate every Muslim.
I'm an atheist personally so I don't agree with the way in which, religion can lead people to commit violence and declare wars and generally brainwash people so I'd prefer it if there was never religion to start with. However this does not mean I should then hate every single practicing Muslim in the world nor should it lead me to believe that every Muslim behaves extremely causing riots, killing US diplomats, mutilating their daughters genitals, throwing acid at women and killing homesexuals.. I think you're getting the point.
Why don't you try talking to a Muslim person, you never know you might find a friend :)
I will also refrain from properly commenting about your first statement referencing Nazi Germany.
I cannot comment on what the '99%' of Germans did or did not do as I was not in their situation. People making decisions as 1 person or small family may not have done anything based on the fear of what might happen to them.
I'll refer you to this wikipedia article which, might reference in general what is likely to happen if any nation in the world experiences something like Nazi Germany again in the future.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_...ance_to_Nazism
This is generally what has happened in the past where any sort of resistance group starts - it usually consists of small pockets or groups of resistance.
I'm sorry, but your reasoning is inept, almost child-like...
I don't hate muslims.
The guy in the film doesn't hate muslims.
The Amazing Atheist (in the liveleaks film) doesn't hate muslims.
We hate what many MANY muslims are doing (the so-called 1%)
And we also hate the indifference and lack of any kind of reaction from the many many more muslims who do nothing in response (the so-called 99%)
And, shit and jesus, no one is talking about ALL muslims, ok?? Ok.... We're using broad brushstrokes here, my friend... Because, maybe you haven't noticed, but there's a kind of, oooh, what's the word I'm looking for.... a PATTERN... Yes, that's right, there's just an eeeny-weeeeny bnit of a pattern here, know what I mean?
THIS IS GROUNDHOG JIHAD, my friend, and I really struggle to understand why you are YEARNING so hard NOT to see a pattern here with the prevailing religious dogma which is stirring all the shit up....
There is always a FILM, or a NOVEL, or a CARTOON, or a SPEECH, or a SONG, or a PLAY, or a TEDDY BEAR (for fuks sake) that people will KILL for... in the name of ISLAM!
Always an excuse to PARADE their own FALSE OUTRAGE, and riot and loot and burn.... in the name of ISLAM!
And there are always faux intellectuals in the west who keep supplying these monsters with excuses for their barbaric behaviour.... I mean, to KILL someone over a FILM, over a CARTOON, over a NOVEL?... REALLY??... When I see hindus, jews, christians, bhuddists, pagans and atheists and agnostics behaving in the same way on a REGULAR basis, then, my friend, your points may have some resonance.
And the point you make about "hate crime against homosexuals over here" is so utterly glib that it's almost offensive; dude, when a nazi barbarian over here commits such a crime they are ON THEIR OWN, acting OUTSIDE THE LAW, and they will be CHASED and CHARGED and PROSECUTED.... In large parts of the islamic world it is the FUCKING STATE THAT KILLS THE HOMOSEXUALS.... Do you really need this basic shit spelt out for you??? For fuks sake, you're not in college now trying to impress the tutor with your maverick intellectual reasoning skills - this is REAL LIFE, not a fucking debating society: IN THE SHITHOLE KUNTRIES THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE ARE KILLED BY THE STATE, WOMEN OPPRESSED AND KILLED BY THE STATE, GAYS OPPRESSED AND KILLED BY THE STATE...
Why are you twisting and turning so hard and slippery like to get it?? I'm afraid, I can only come to the conclusion that YOUR OWN liberal credentials are more worthy to you than the freedom of expression that had to be FOUGHT for in the west... And that's a shame.
Maybe if/when the fight comes to your own front door, maybe then you will pick a side?.... (Allow me to give you a head start: it will not be hindus or jews or sikhs or christians or pagans or atheists that bring such shit to your front door, know what I mean?)
The west is not perfect... No where is perfect... But I picked my side, and the 1% of extremist AND the 99% of docile cowards and collaborators, no matter what name they go by, can go fuck themselves.
ALLAH FUCKING AKHBAR!
blue eyed devil
Ok I'll try to keep this short as I'm not sure you're really getting the point here. I might even capitalise words as this seems to be something you enjoy but there are no guarantees.
Firstly I have not refused to accept the points you made or have I denied the horrors that go on in some majority Muslim countries. The only point I have tried to make and one which, I feel is important is this is not EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM. The reason I bring this up as I have already stated is because the guy in the first video most of the time refers to Islam and Muslims as a whole - as one entity eluding to all people who consider themselves Muslim. This is exactly what the issue is that I am raising.
People throughout history seem to have the uncanny ability to firstly stereotype before anything else.
All of the comments you have made in your last post are correct but the point I have tried to make is that you should not blanket these activities to apply to EVERY MUSLIM on the fucking planet. This type of stereotyping creates a never ending vicious cycle of hate. We need to acknowledge that only some mis-interpret religious scripture to put a stop to their activities. If you paint a picture that seems to refer to every single person of a religious group then the response your likely to get is that all those people hate you. Acknowledge that it is not everyone and pinpoint who it is then you can work together to stop it.
This is the only point I have tried to illustrate here.
Oh and if the fight comes to my door.. scratch that if anyone comes to my door Muslim or not starting shit then I will punch them in the fucking face.
Great post and I agree. I don't think every single Muslim is complacent in the things mentioned in the video and I don't think the video maker intended that, it's clear that we're not dealing in absolutes but he is spot on, on a lot of points. As a religion (and as their culture is so deeply routed in their religion) they are intolerant and have no respect for any other religions, cultures or people. There are some good Muslim groups in the UK - but also many that seek to take advantage of the lenient laws and how we generally afford the respect to any religious groups. It's getting tiring. They've bitched and moaned and over-reacted for far too long. Salman Rushdie, Danish comics, etc. it's tiring and people have had enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by thepiedpiper
You rarely hear of Muslim's defending what these zealots are attacking, many seem complacent if not actively supporting them.
It's time Muslims and Islam faced the fact that they are the same as any other religion or group of people in this country and if they want to be treat of equals then they need to afford the same to everyone else, which includes the freedom to make a joke - or criticize their God or religion - as we would with any others.
Ok ok, I'll TRY not to capitalise, lol....Quote:
Originally Posted by thepiedpiper
Look, at the risk of sounding patronising, you are obviously intellectually and emotionally intelligent.... So please don't try and encapsulate these anti-Islamist arguments into something so dumb, as if I and a bunch of other dim-witted neanderthals are talking about "...every single muslim individual"...
Dude, obviously we're not talking about "...every single muslim"... That would be RIDICULOUS (ooops, sorry: that would be ridiculous).
It is the movement, not the individual that is encroaching on all other cultures and landscapes... The only time an individual should be judged and held accountable is for their individual "actions" (or, indeed, lack of action), not their group membership.
But when so many individuals identify with a movement - either passively or aggressively - that is significantly upsetting and unpleasant to other cultures, then those other cultures must, inevitably, draw attention and ultimately make judgements about the movement that seeks to impose itself on all before it.
Listen to this: before the Salmon Rushdie affair, I was only aware of Islam and muslims in the same way as I was aware of hindus, sikhs, bhuddists, pagans etc... Their group was just one of many groups co-existing in society, all just generally getting along and making do.... Now, that has all changed... And it continues to change, with increasing pace.
North, East, West or South.... Everywhere there is Islam you will find stress and strife. Does Islam co-exist with us pagans, atheists and agnostics particualrly well in the West? ... How about in the Far East where you find Islam next to Bhuddism?... What about in India where it is supposed to live next to hindus?.... And Africa, where it has settled nest to Christianity and paganism and tribal religions, how is it getting on there, do you think? Oh, and what about the jews? The middle east used to be FULL of jews (and christians and pagans), surely Islam has learnt to settle peacefully there, among the jews and christians and pagans?... Oh, wait a second, all the christians and jews and pagans have emigrated, or simply dissapeared??... Wow, I wonder why that is? Maybe they just didn't like the climate?
Islam is even at war with itself: shia and sunni muslims regularly blow eachother up, they even eachother's mosques up, for fuks sake... Meanwhile, let any non-muslim set foot in a mosque while forgetting to take his shoes off and all hell is let loose. The one muslim tradition that I do know of as being tolerant and peaceful is the Sufi strand of Islam, and guess what? They are despised by other branches of islam for being too spiritual; Both shia AND sunni groups regularly attack them.
The point I'm making is that there is an undeniable pattern here... Islam expands into other nations/cultures, then quickly sets about changing those other cultures by pretending to be OUTRAGED and harbouring false grievances for every petty infringement that they contrive to perceive against them.
At the risk of sounding thuggish, the time has come for ALL other cultures of the world, from Nigeria to Norway, and from Thailand to Tallahassee to:
SHUT THE FUCK UP
And just for record: No, I am not talking about
every
single
muslim.
Because that would be silly.
blue eyed devil
LOL.... Obviously, what I meant to say was:
At the risk of sounding thuggish, the time has come for ALL other cultures of the world, from Nigeria to Norway, and from Thailand to Tallahassee, to tell islam to:
SHUT THE FUCK UP
heehee
I think I am starting to see eye to eye with you now dude! :) but just to clarify I wasn't sating you personally where referring to Islam as one my issue was more with the guy in the original video. I mean even the guy in the second video posted was cool in my opinion as he separated extremist Muslims from Muslims by using the term radical Islam.
I'm pretty sure the original dude wasn't referring to every single Muslim but I must take some concern from his personal view as he is a Coptic Christian so there is going to be some bigotry there I'm sure. The concern here though is not everyone who watches that video will view it like I did or you have for that matter. When he refers to Islam in general or Muslims some people will interpret what he has said at face value and assume all Muslims behave in the same way and this is what leads to trouble much like radical Muslim clerics that instill hatred in to followers by using blanket statements like the guy in the video
I agree that if a specific group of people act in a way which, draws attention to itself eventually others will begin to associate those behaviours to the group as a whole as we are conditioned to do so. My issue with this however is that we should be targeting those extreme individuals which, promote this negative behaviour within the group and take them out of the equation. In this case we should be working together to remove extremist Muslim leaders and then the rest will fall.
I think this paragraph you wrote is an interesting point:
The point I'm making is that there is an undeniable pattern here... Islam expands into other nations/cultures, then quickly sets about changing those other cultures by pretending to be OUTRAGED and harbouring false grievances for every petty infringement that they contrive to perceive against them.
Reading this made me think.. hmm isn't this how many cultures/nations behave when they expand or move elsewhere not just Islam? You're right in making this point still as I do believe out of all the monotheistic religions Islam probably does have the most oppressive set of interpreted values in the modern world.
I think to summarise I agree with much of what you have said in the posts and my postings where more a dig at the guy in the video who in my opinion has some deep rooted racist/bigoted views which, do cloud some of his judgement.
I think you're probably right about the Coptic Christian guy being motivated by bigotry, and probably being something of a religious nutjob... Consequently I wouldn't choose his company for a drink or 2 lol.... But I have to excuse his bitterness in this case because his peoples and his culture are literally an endangered species.
The middle east is the home of monotheism, unleashing upon the pagan world the 3 religions of judaism, christianity and islam, and giving us such joyous and easy-going figures as Moses, Jesus, and Mohamed... Obviously, then, this whole entire region was absoulutely FULL of adherents of these 3 religions, as well as many pagan peoples. As a simplification, we could estimate that this region was 25% jewish, 25% christian, 25% muslim, and 25% everyone else.
Now this entire region is at least 90% muslim...
And I think we know how that situation came about: non-muslims were either forced to convert, forced to emigrate, or exterminated... Those that remained, like coptic christians, are all but extinct.
We in the west, and our brothers and sisters in the far east and southern hemisphere must not allow this to happen to our culture and our peoples.
Curiously, this is a fate that Africa and Europe already share very similar experiences of: both Africa and Europe had Christianity forced on them, while the far east mostly avoided this fate.
We must all now be on guard as the next wave of monotheism comes at us like a tidal wave of extreme repression, extreme misogeny, and extreme homophobia.
Paradoxically, the extremist islamists are not really the danger as they are very predictable and easily pointed out... The real dangers are the more insiduous, politically-ambitious islamists (who skillfully use, and abuse, our western notions of free speech and tolerance, using our very liberty against us)... And equally dangerous to World peace and culture are the so called moderate muslims who consistently fail to vocalise their disapproval of Sharia Law, and all the implications this vile system of religious law has for Women, homosexuals, and ALL non-muslims, i.e. "Infidel" or "kuffar".... If you are not a muslim, whether you are religious or atheist, to the islamic culture you are "kuffar" or "infidel", meaning scum or filth... This is not an extremist islamic belief, but, I'm afraid, a general one.
I am a Proud Infidel... And I stand alongside my infidel brothers and sisters in Africa, South America and the Far East to protect all of our liberty and culture from islamic dictatorship.
blue eyed devil
blue eyed devil
i dont think islam has suffered all the 100 years wars or the 60 years wars that christians endured throughout europe in previous centuries..those long long conflicts haad much to do with our sense of democracy and personal sovereignty that we enjoy here in the west..our history over here is equally bloody but removed by history.. arabs havent gone through this to learn more about the importance of separation of church and state..shit afghanistan is still in a ad1000 mindset really...tribal and scared of religious zealots..