Wow, this was a very interesting discussion. I missed it the first go around. I've been around for a while myself and I've met Jessica, many moons ago. She actually was a very nice girl (I say was because like I wrote, it's been a long time she may still be) I have to say her comments probably came off a little judgemental as do a lot of things in message boards, sometimes things are easier said than written because the tone of the voice can change an entire conversation. I've heard similar comments from some of the other tgirls in my day. My view point is that the whole issue is very complicated. It's hard to put a label on people. I love tgirls too and I believe that most "regular" guys would find a lot of the girls on this site attractive especially if they didn't know that they were tgirls. That being the case I guess tgirl admirers aren't all that different from most men. Could it be that we're just a little more openminded to follow through? I think that most tgirl admirers at one point didn't know that they were attracted to tgirls. Usually they kind of stumble upon it later in life (by later I mean late teens or somewhere in their 20's). By that point you've already lived your life as an "average" guy. Then when you realize that you are attracted to tgirls it's an eye opening experience to say the least, it takes time to even figure out what to make of it and the internet is a tool that expedites most explorations, I believe had this been an earlier period in history most us guys would never have been given the oppurtunity to explore this, (remember the internet hasn't been around that long) of course tgirls have always been around in one compacity or another, but in no where near the access of what the internet provides. Also, most tgirl admirers are also very attracted to women. So I think a lot of us see tgirls as women with a little something extra. Now of course the something extra may include the penis, but it's more than that, it's the persona, the confidence, the extra femininity etc... I feel tgirls on this topic, I get it. But at the same time they have to look through our eyes. The issue is not as cut and dry as it seems. It's hard to paint every guy with a broad stroke because the issues are so diverse. I think a lot of tgirls debate this issue as if we tgirl admirers are only attracted to tgirls, when as I wrote most of us are also attracted to regular women, so we have a choice as far as to who we choose to be in a relationship with. I think like most things in life the avg tgirl admirer will chose the route of less resistance. Of course there are guys out there that are open about it all, they date tgirls and don't give a damn one way or the other, I'm not debating that. I'm just trying to give a viewpoint of some of us guys out here.